Question:

Hi everyone, My anxiety has been in check for the last 5 weeks or so since I started on Effexor but today is a different story. I am going away for a week down to the shore and I have a million and one things to do but because of the anxiety I can’t get very much done. I have basically walked around all day thinking about the things that have to be done. This is very typical behavior that I had before the meds, I get overwhelmed and can’t focus. Anyway, just thought I would post here and maybe someone can offer some words of encouragement. 4 other people are counting on me to get everything done. Thanks Jonathan

Response:

Hi, One of the things which will help immediately (and is quite easy) is to not think too far ahead. Yes, you need to get a lot done, but I tend to think only about an hour ahead when I have a lot to do. Write a list of the things you need to get done so you don’t forget any of them, then just focus on when you are going to do them, and only mentally focus on the next hour ahead- what are you going to do in that hour? If I have a week with lots of stressful events in it, I get really, really overwhelmed with anxiety very quickly if I start thinking ‘how am I going to do this, then that, then that, all in one week?". It’s even worse if I have a lot to do in one day. By only thinking in small blocks of time though, things are much easier. As a last note, this problem was also experienced by a friend of mine who doesn’t suffer from anxiety problems. He admitted that he often gets frightened thinking of deadlines, etc, that are close together (as most people do I think), and that he routinely has to focus on each hour of the day when he is very busy and not think about what is happening later. Martin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, My anxiety has been in check for the last 5 weeks or so since I started on Effexor but today is a different story. I am going away for a week down to the shore and I have a million and one things to do but because of the anxiety I can’t get very much done. I have basically walked around all day thinking about the things that have to be done. This is very typical behavior that I had before the meds, I get overwhelmed and can’t focus. Anyway, just thought I would post here and maybe someone can offer some words of encouragement. 4 other people are counting on me to get everything done. Thanks Jonathan

Response:

Hi everyone, My anxiety has been in check for the last 5 weeks or so since I started on Effexor but today is a different story. I am going away for a week down to the shore and I have a million and one things to do but because of the anxiety I can’t get very much done. I have basically walked around all day thinking about the things that have to be done. This is very typical behavior that I had before the meds, I get overwhelmed and can’t focus. Anyway, just thought I would post here and maybe someone can offer some words of encouragement. 4 other people are counting on me to get everything done. Thanks Jonathan

Just a thought Jonathan, Is it possible to contact the 4 others and ask to split the list? Take care, Meryl

Response:

Hi everyone, My anxiety has been in check for the last 5 weeks or so since I started on Effexor but today is a different story. I am going away for a week down to the shore and I have a million and one things to do but because of the anxiety I can’t get very much done. I have basically walked around all day thinking about the things that have to be done. This is very typical behavior that I had before the meds, I get overwhelmed and can’t focus. Anyway, just thought I would post here and maybe someone can offer some words of encouragement. 4 other people are counting on me to get everything done. Thanks Jonathan

Hi Jonathan, I understand what you’re saying so well. I have just returned from a week away and the week before I left I was making so many lists of things to do but not actually getting anything done. My anxiety was sky high. In the end I decided that if I didn’t get everything done before I went it didn’t really matter. Is there anything on your list of things to do that isn’t really that important? If that’s not possible I would suggest just trying to concentrate on one thing at a time. I know that’s easy to say bit not so easy to do. Another suggestion for you..Is there any way that the other 4 people could help you get these things done? Carol..

Response:

Why are you ALLOWING 4 other people to count on you to get everything done? Unless they are very young children they should be helping YOU out. Why not say to them you can’t do it all by yourself and you’d like them to to xyz if they want it to get done? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, My anxiety has been in check for the last 5 weeks or so since I started on Effexor but today is a different story. I am going away for a week down to the shore and I have a million and one things to do but because of the anxiety I can’t get very much done. I have basically walked around all day thinking about the things that have to be done. This is very typical behavior that I had before the meds, I get overwhelmed and can’t focus. Anyway, just thought I would post here and maybe someone can offer some words of encouragement. 4 other people are counting on me to get everything done. Thanks Jonathan

Response:

Jonathen, sweetie…don’t be a doormat. We just cannot let that happen. 4 other people should be sharing the load and pitching in to make the vacation a success. I’ve people-pleased till I had blisters on my kneecaps…don’t let this happen to you! Make a list and break the jobs down into parts…use a systems analysis approach. Don’t be afraid to ask for…and expect…help. Tell us a few of the things you need to do…that can help you start your list. When do you leave? How long will you be away? Peace, John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, My anxiety has been in check for the last 5 weeks or so since I started on Effexor but today is a different story. I am going away for a week down to the shore and I have a million and one things to do but because of the anxiety I can’t get very much done. I have basically walked around all day thinking about the things that have to be done. This is very typical behavior that I had before the meds, I get overwhelmed and can’t focus. Anyway, just thought I would post here and maybe someone can offer some words of encouragement. 4 other people are counting on me to get everything done. Thanks Jonathan

Response:

Hey John, I guess at this point I have most things under control somewhat but will probably be up all night packing and finishing laundry. Just got back from THE BIG K, had to pick up a few things. 3 of the 4 people in question are small children so can’t really expect much help there and the other promises to help out when they get home from work. We are leaving around noon tomorrow and will be gone for a week. I am bringing my laptop but don’t think I will be able to post as this newsgroup is only available to me through Comcast Giganews and I wont have a cable connection. Thank you for your support…."BRO" Jonathan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jonathen, sweetie…don’t be a doormat. We just cannot let that happen. 4 other people should be sharing the load and pitching in to make the vacation a success. I’ve people-pleased till I had blisters on my kneecaps…don’t let this happen to you! Make a list and break the jobs down into parts…use a systems analysis approach. Don’t be afraid to ask for…and expect…help. Tell us a few of the things you need to do…that can help you start your list. When do you leave? How long will you be away? Peace, John Hi everyone, My anxiety has been in check for the last 5 weeks or so since I started on Effexor but today is a different story. I am going away for a week down to the shore and I have a million and one things to do but because of the anxiety I can’t get very much done. I have basically walked around all day thinking about the things that have to be done. This is very typical behavior that I had before the meds, I get overwhelmed and can’t focus. Anyway, just thought I would post here and maybe someone can offer some words of encouragement. 4 other people are counting on me to get everything done. Thanks Jonathan

Response:

Martin, Carol and Albee Thanks so much, it helped just to vent a bit. I am sure my anxiety level will decrease tomorrow once I am no my way. The making a list suggestion is a great one unfortunatly I never can bring myself to do it. I know it would help in all areas of my life. Take care, Jonathan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why are you ALLOWING 4 other people to count on you to get everything done? Unless they are very young children they should be helping YOU out. Why not say to them you can’t do it all by yourself and you’d like them to to xyz if they want it to get done? Hi everyone, My anxiety has been in check for the last 5 weeks or so since I started on Effexor but today is a different story. I am going away for a week down to the shore and I have a million and one things to do but because of the anxiety I can’t get very much done. I have basically walked around all day thinking about the things that have to be done. This is very typical behavior that I had before the meds, I get overwhelmed and can’t focus. Anyway, just thought I would post here and maybe someone can offer some words of encouragement. 4 other people are counting on me to get everything done. Thanks Jonathan

Response:

Martin, Carol and Albee Thanks so much, it helped just to vent a bit. I am sure my anxiety level will decrease tomorrow once I am no my way. The making a list suggestion is a great one unfortunatly I never can bring myself to do it. I know it would help in all areas of my life. Take care, Jonathan

Hi Jonathan, Venting is always good ) List making is a hobby of me. I have it off to a fine art now. That doesn’t mean to say that I ever do everything on the list though ! I just like to write it all down. LOL.. Enjoy your week away Jonathan and have fun ! Love Carol.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why are you ALLOWING 4 other people to count on you to get everything done? Unless they are very young children they should be helping YOU out. Why not say to them you can’t do it all by yourself and you’d like them to to xyz if they want it to get done? Hi everyone, My anxiety has been in check for the last 5 weeks or so since I started on Effexor but today is a different story. I am going away for a week down to the shore and I have a million and one things to do but because of the anxiety I can’t get very much done. I have basically walked around all day thinking about the things that have to be done. This is very typical behavior that I had before the meds, I get overwhelmed and can’t focus. Anyway, just thought I would post here and maybe someone can offer some words of encouragement. 4 other people are counting on me to get everything done. Thanks Jonathan

Response:

I think maybe not. I believe that obligation means "must go" and I feel there are no MUST anythings.  MUST also takes options out of the equation, to a great extent.

ELLIOTT !!!!!  dang. an obligation is NOT’ah must.  hell…  payin’ yer phone bill’s an obligation… it don’t mean ya MUST pay it.  sure, there’s consequences when avoiding an obligation, and those MUST be considered if the consequences are written in stone. (OR ma bell will consider em for ya.) one may be "obliged" to consider the consequences the more obscure consequences. for instance:  i feel an obligation to "life" as nature surely saw fit ta gift me or taunt me with (whatever the perspective of my moment is) to participate. otherwise, i’d damn sure sleep all day and NEVER leave tha house.  nobody said i "MUST" participate, but let’s look at the consequences:  i’d never have lived all over tha U.S., had many successful business ventures, many failures in that arena, as well (i cherish both) and i’d have never dated the cool guys i dated in other states and countries, i’d never had met you, i’d never have come to ANY fork in tha road and taken it, i’d never have gone down a ‘beaten path’ and discovered dy-no-mite areas to speelunk or caught 2 guys havin’ sex on’ah rock, i’d never have dreaded my hair, shaved my head or dyed my hair every color of the rainbow, i’d never have even SEEN a rainbow, much less a double rainbow. i’d never have broken my foot steppin’ in’ah manhole when i was drunk in berkley at 3 am, i’d never have puked for 3 days after eatin’ 4 dozen oysters and drank tequila cuz i just HAD ta go to tha same restaurant rob reiner did in "sleepless in seattle" at pike place market and pretend i was him. basically i’d not have the overloaded "memory bank" i have now.  now those are my OWN esoteric visions of my consequences. considering i see them as important, i feel "obligated" to continue my life as an "opportunist".  in no way do i feel that i "must". on the other hand, that phone bill?  i MUST pay it or my phone’s cut off.  THAT obligation is a "MUST" for me, the consequences are dire, in my world… and i DO so hate partin’ with tha almighty dollar, but i am obligated and MUST if i wanna get online or have 89 hour conversations with muh baby dad. obligation is "self-talk"  (is that a psycho babble term?  ick) for me, it gets me off my fat, wide, white, lazy ass. now……. YOU are obligated to call me cuz i love you more’n i love tha Mission District, the telephones in tha bathroom in marriott hotels, and muh luggage all put tagether….that don’t mean ya MUST. unless the consequence was, assuredly, that all yer hair would fall out and if ya really like yer hair, you’d call.  the only consequence, actually, is one that YOU decide, (wellllll… one is, of course, you never get ta talk to yer admirer and tha coolest chick on tha planet)… but that’m my OWN version of yer consequence, cuz i’m ostentatious like that.  your version may be "way" different. lalalalalalala that said… there’s a HUGE difference between "obligation" and "must" Gary: 1 Elliott: 0  (SEVEN MINUTES IN THA PENALTY BOX, NO SPITTIN’) now call me ! xoxoxoxo ~tanya

Response:

Hi Sharon:  I’m laughing at the moment.  Actually I do like Elliott, as well as one can like someone who is only known by typed words on a plasma screen. More importantly, I respect his opinions because they come from a lot of very hard work on a number of fronts in his life.  This is why I am honest, when I agree, and when I don’t.  Actually Elliott is the one person here who, when a very vicious and icky individual from Pennsylvania told him something that I just COULD not abide, I actually lost my temper, and cyber-stomped that person, to the point that I became rather inappropriate. He was "accused" of causing a very bad circumstance for his spouse and even his pets, and it was vile to the point that I was unable to contain my contemptuous reaction to it.  If I didn’t like him, that would never have happened. I have difficulty tolerating people who aren’t honest, so I try to present an honest statement with some degree of diplomacy in a mutually respectful cyberspace, even when Elliott refers to me as ‘his peach’.  LOL  Can he be annoying?  Yes, now and then, but he takes that effort quite seriously, and considers it a central role of his.  Who am I to try to deny him that, given its import?  To wit:  "I believe I was put here to annoy the hell out of people"  (actually that may not be quoted verbatim – but I reeeealy don’t feel like looking it up, and it’s pretty close if not exact).  I’m quoting, but actually I don’t think he really actually thinks that all the time, and I’m just having some fun with it.  I have seen him be very helpful to people with nothing to gain from it except the probable satisfaction of having done so, and I definitely respect that as well. I suspect that some small part of my personality is similar to some small part of his, the one that just won’t be put down on the floor again, in my case, and gets pissed if it thinks that’s about to happen, and confuses disagreement with threat once in a while with no defensable reason (I’m speaking for myself, again.  I would never be so presumptuous as to speculate on what makes Elliott occasionally – rarely – a little bellicose) Thankfully we both have higher selves and it is those selves that banter the vast majority of the time. G

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the reason that I’m even re-visiting this at all is because her avoidance appears to have come straight from the ‘catastrophizing department’ of her mind.  We all know how to get to that department, and many of us are fairly good at walking away from it also.  The presented/perceived options are (a) go on a wonderful vacation and come home in a straight-jacket or (b) go nowhere/have "re-run" vacation in Toronto. At least that’s what I’m seeing here.  I’m sure you would agree that there are other "options" besides those two scenarios.  The OP cites fear of losing mind while flying  -  not to minimize her symptoms or their import in Sharon’s life, but that is really a rather common issue with phobic or panic material, as you surely know.  It’s pharmacy solvable (likely), and she also catastrophized that.  Rather than taking some meds to tolerate flying and not "lose my mind", she spoke of going to a beach paradise and "staying wasted half the time" (which personally …..well, that would just be so untoward, never mind).  Is "staying wasted half the time"  a bit catastrophic maybe?  Is it also the ONLY option, if we bring pharmacy solutions in here?  Rhetoric, I apologize…….(question withdrawn) I made the statements I made, which I still believe are a valid and reasonable approach, btw, because it is almost blatantly obvious that Sharon DOES want to have this experience, but is depressed, tired and just doesn’t have the energy right now to do the cognitive restructure on the issue which she (very likely) probably wants to do.  I could be wrong – but if I’m not, and she decides to change her mind because of one piece of encouragement derived from ‘whomever’ – and that’s what I come here for in the first place. I appreciate EVERY bit of advice I’ve received here, and it has been valuable as well. But…talk about IRONY. After reading responses here, I decided on a plan of action. I was soooo depressed anyway that I thought, "why not take a chance on something????" A bit of background…my BF is, overall,  a supportive person but has his own personal issues….as well he might, considering his childhood. We’re two "wounded" people trying to make sense of our lives and each other…….and it isn’t always a wonderful relationship. He’s Irish, salt please…I have Irish blood in my veins also) So, he isn’t the perfectly "safe" person for me, but I don’t expect that of anyone. toward a vacation, using incremental exposure to approach the May vacation. I went to Expedia.com and thought about what short flight I could take to find out, in the first place, if I even still have a flying phobia. My BF has all of next week off, was going to go to Myrtle Beach to play looking at flights for next week. Once I decide on something, I want to jump into it asap. I looked up flights from Ithaca, NY to Norfolk, VA.  A car from there, and lodgings for 3 nights on the outer banks of North Carolina. Found a hotel there that seemed lovely, oceanfront and all…..indoor/outdoor I MADE THE RESERVATION FOR THE HOTEL…..what a step for me. Didn’t confirm the flights, was waiting on word from my BF that all was well on his end for this trip. But me….it really sounds pathetic, considering how far this is to fly, and how dull it is compared to going directly to Ta-Ta Island, but I was feeling excited as all hell. My BF has diabetes, and his numbers have been running really high (due to job stress, I feel) When I told him about all of this, he said that he had to get to the doctor next week. I can understand we did have quite an argument, because I know that he could have seen effectively took the wind out of my sails…….was very negative, and I realized that he was just not into this trip. God, I was so looking forward to coming here and posting about what I was going to do. I felt so damned proud of myself. I felt that if I made these flights successfully that the next step could easily be a trip to Costa Rica…….I had started to visualize myself getting on a plane, and recalled how much I used to love the feeling of it’s of being "stuck" in a situation or place) My feelings are all over the place right now, I’m pissed off w/my BF, I’ve opened a window that I won’t easily close again. Damn, if I need to find another flying partner, if that’s what it takes, I’ll do it. I always ramble like hell here, sorry about that. then it was worth the time to post the encouragement.  This is my own view on it.  My views are reflective of opportunities lost to anxiety over the years You and Elliot do like to go at it, Gary…..I would like to see you two duke it out in a boxing ring for Thinkers. NO physical contact, only rhetoric allowed. Bottom line –  I think maybe, and you think maybe not.  Sharon will figure it out. I will figure everything out and solve the problem of world hunger

Response:

Balls! It’s ‘cojones,’ as someone pointed out to me a few years ago (to point out to someone else…..er, forget it

LOL, no, I just impersonate a JAP pretty damned well……learned it at college in NYC, had to listen to them on the dorm elevators every day. I found a great solution….they’d be going on about their father buying them the WRONG Luis Vuitton bag for their birthday, and after enough of this……I would quote from, say, Joseph Heller (Catch-22) and say loudly and flatly, "You’ve got flies in your eyes." They’d stop their chatter for a while….then I’d add, "That’s why you can’t see them, because you’ve got flies in your eyes." Then they’d push the button for the next floor and beat a hasty retreat……and I’d have the elevator to myself. camcorder. Rowrrrr.

Response:

"My experience spells "obligation" (and going along just because one FEELS they MUST) as P O O R   O U T C O M E" Yes, and that’s the obvious reason for our differing points of view.  I’ll elaborate (possibly my failure to do so before is part of this venture into polite cyber-disagreement) "Anxiety disorder folks need every single bit of self to recover. One bit given away usually leads to another piece given away." Absolutely.  If I even thought that anything I wanted to say with intent to help was going to cause that, I’d just omit it.  I’d rather err on the side of caution, and loss of self is not acceptable to me at all, in terms of anyone. "One doesn’t ‘go’ to pay taxes – one just sends them a note that they can keep your money " Well, yes.  But ya have to send it.  There are *some* must-do’s, however that is NOT AT ALL what I was talking about, as the essence of my suggestion. "My aim is to relate my experiences with what has worked and what has not." I respect that, and in the process of these discussions I sometimes change my mind, or add a new idea to the present one.  Sometimes not, but that is ok too. "The ‘go and do because it’ll please someone else’ or ‘go and do because it seems the right/best thing to do’ or ‘go because I’m obligated to’ are the types of things that I feel are long term mistakes." I think this is where the rubber meets the road here.  You (so it appears) are equating obligation with loss of self, people-pleasing, and generally just not having things "go well" because they transpired on someone else’s terms.  That absolutely and undeniably CAN be what comes from those losses, or patronizations of others – but is not what I intended.  I would never endorse such things, and probably have even MORE resistance to that sort of stuff than you yourself, Elliott.  My "obligation" comment was more in the sense of perfunctory obligation, such as paying the electric bill, vacuuming my car (yearly whether it needs it or not), showing up for a valued (by me) family event, etc.  That’s why I added, "just a part of the year".  I certainly would not ever approach obligation from the standpoint that you have (certainly very well) laid out here.  Of course it should not be done as "obligation to another", my thinking was in terms of "basic obligation" or more to the point "obligation to the self".  My communication may have been the problem here – that probably should have been elaborated better on post number one. "I wasn’t allowing time, nor suggesting a long drawn out cognitive focus. That’s to be worked on for the future – and full time." When I read that, I immediately began thinking that maybe (very probably actually) my anxiety stuff just doesn’t have the same intensity as some (or even many) of the other people here.  That would obviously make me less of an asset in dispensing advice to people about how to re-think, or re-frame, and many other aspects of cognitive-behavioral therapy that may never have come my way, possibly because I just didn’t need them.  I don’t know the answer to that right this minute. To have a long lasting high, I believe one has to have the frame of mind that says "I want to go and do this and I feel ’somewhat’ ready to go do this."<

Yes, I totally and utterly believe the same thing.  That I find so little to disagree with here is making me think that I see obligation in some centrally different way, and I know that I was thinking of it in a different way when I threw it out as a possible look-see-do.  I can definitely see that "obligation" as my word choice does not "fit well" with the idea of "I want to go and do this" in the most literal sense. "I’m looking for long term goals, not short fixes." Amen. "You may wish you had done more if it, but you wouldn’t know the lasting results that may have been negative if you had." I’ll take that at face-value.  It’s undeniable. "I know from my own experience that although it felt good, it was a long term fuck up to long term recovery." O.K.  I totally have to believe that, because you took the time in therapy (or someplace) to examine this closely, and I never really did – so I can’t think of any valid reason to disbelieve or refute the statement, and I’ll also give thought to this now – as to how it may have affected me in terms of recovering (or possibly not having recovered optimally). "I pointed out then (in the post above that I pasted in) and will again, that if she feels ready to go, she should go. If she’s doing it just for him because she feels she owes him – that attitude is a dangerous one. I believe that to be very true." Yes, once again, we’re on the same book, chapter, verse, and page.  Of course Sharon should not go on vacation for any reason besides wanting to go on vacation.  Going out of "owing something" is absolutely dangerous, and I take NO issue with that.  It again is apparent that I see obligation as something benign, like "February", and you see it as something much more. That does not make me "right", but I’m not positive that it makes me "wrong" either.  I’ll have to think on this some more, for my own recovery’s sake. "Wrong. Bottom line is that you think maybe, and that maybe thinking of it as an ‘obligation’ might be a good cognitive strategy." I have used it, more than once, and it "seems" like it did work for me, but in examining all this, I feel a need now to consider the idea that maybe it did not.  OK, I just thought of an example of where I used this once, with what "feels like/seems like" success.  Maybe that will explain why I feel that it "can/might" work for some.  As a young person, I was sexually assaulted in a gym shower room, twice in 20 minutes by two different thugs – one of the most vile events of my life.  This obviously caused all sorts of pathology completely unknown to me until much later.  At age 28, I wanted to go "buff-up" some – having lost some unwanted weight and now wanting to go further, I decided that I’d need to use the equipment in a health club, and upon touring it I realized that simply being there made me rather definitely and anxious almost to the point of intolerability.  I began to simply go there, and decided to see it as "just another part of the day that I need to do, much like going to work, which I don’t always feel like doing either, but I manage to, and I do OK once I get there".  It worked for me, and I actually just came back from the gym tonight, and wrote this – a new gym today, first visit, long story, not relevant.  At age 28, it was difficult (very difficult) and I worked with the therapist twice a week on the various issues that surrounded it until it became comfortable.  A sort of "fake it till you make it" concept, which I think comes from REBT (can’t remember for sure right now).  It took surprisingly little time, maybe six or seven weeks (I don’t remember exactly), and I was completely comfortable there, and did not have to use any kind of coping technique at all;  it was just like going to the pharmacy, or to an accounting practice, or anywhere else – very neutral, and became positive rapidly.  Of note, the "thinking of it as a basic, normal obligation, like a job" was NOT the therapist’s idea, nor did I even tell him that I was doing that.  It’s entirely possible that if I had, he would have taken some sort of tack like yours here.  I don’t have any idea, but will bounce this off him in a couple days. Admittedly, that is only my experience, and may not have ANY applicablity to that of another.  It may not have been the best way to approach my problem, at age 28.  I can’t go back, but I can look back.  Because of this "disagreement", i WILL look back, and I will also bring up obligation and it’s relevance in the next session I go to, to see what comes of it (for me).  I have absolutely no vested interest in ‘being right’ here, and like yourself, I look for long-term goal attainment, not short-term fix.  I certainly never meant to imply that I "know" what Sharon ought to do, I just threw an idea out, based on some experience (which, in truth, I was not even concretely recalling, at the time I wrote it – but wanted, in writing this, to think of an example, and it took about 2 minutes to recall the easiest one to describe). To sum up:  I was using obligation in the sense of "need to for me", and you view the word in a much more broad sense (at least in the context of this post and the quandary presented), or at least have elaborated on it in a much more broad-scope way.  I will examine this more closely, and hope to learn something new as a result.  I also just wasn’t interpreting Sharon’s presentation as one of ‘wanting to please another’ as the primary motive for posting the dilemma, or for seeking a solution to dealing with the problems she has with flying. My ultimate aim is only to assist people who are troubled.  Some troublesome issues may well surpass anything I can *totally* relate to, and that might be a problem with some of my postings.  I am unsure right now what to think about that. I appreciate your un-flinching stance on views you have which are/were obtained by experience, and respect them, as I’ve found that many experiential views beat the crap out of those derived from theory or discussion, pep-talks, etc… so I hope you will not see this as anything adversarial, because it certainly is not. Regards, Gary

Response:

(yes, i said drunk) at the wedding

LOL…sorry, I thought that was a funny place to start your post. I am very happy for you, Angela…mornings are rough for a lot of people w/panic or anxiety, as is a cold…so you did remarkably well……the anticipatory anxiety is my biggest problem….the only plane I’ve flown in in 20 years (it doesn’t even really count in my book) was a very small plane in the Adirondacks, and I was so anxious the pilot started to take off (in the lake) I got excited as all hell…and  when we got up there ^ I actually annoyed the other 3 passengers because I was whooping with every drop of the plane (I do like turbulence) and it turned into a positively positive experience. After I stopped with the whooping. Jets, on the other hand, are MUCH more daunting to me. I think it is great that you took your daughter and went on a fun vacation…..even if you are a drunk. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and luckily it didn’t make my panic spike! I think the anticipation was the worst, but i felt obligated to my daughter to show her a good time and i’m sure i would have had the major panic attack whether i was here or not, especially since i had a cold return last week).  i’m glad i did it, even though the takeoff and landing of planes scare the shit out of me, xanax or no xanax, the dr. wants me to start taking the xanax xr every other day (we’re back on the addiction bullshit), although they are still more than happy to put me on lexapro (which i guess they don’t realize that your body becomes dependent to that also)!  I feel pretty confidant that i might have some success with it after the trip.  Hell, I didn’t even freak out when my 4 hour flight turned into a 7-8 hour trip due to layovers from the crappy airport in San Francisco (no offense to any of ya that live there).  I am so glad that you are still considering it, if you get to go anywhere, you’ll be very surprised at what it does for your confidence…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the reason that I’m even re-visiting this at all is because her avoidance appears to have come straight from the ‘catastrophizing department’ of her mind.  We all know how to get to that department, and many of us are fairly good at walking away from it also.  The presented/perceived options are (a) go on a wonderful vacation and come home in a straight-jacket or (b) go nowhere/have "re-run" vacation in Toronto. At least that’s what I’m seeing here.  I’m sure you would agree that there are other "options" besides those two scenarios.  The OP cites fear of losing mind while flying  -  not to minimize her symptoms or their import in Sharon’s life, but that is really a rather common issue with phobic or panic material, as you surely know.  It’s pharmacy solvable (likely), and she also catastrophized that.  Rather than taking some meds to tolerate flying and not "lose my mind", she spoke of going to a beach paradise and "staying wasted half the time" (which personally …..well, that would just be so untoward, never mind).  Is "staying wasted half the time"  a bit catastrophic maybe?  Is it also the ONLY option, if we bring pharmacy solutions in here?  Rhetoric, I apologize…….(question withdrawn) I made the statements I made, which I still believe are a valid and reasonable approach, btw, because it is almost blatantly obvious that Sharon DOES want to have this experience, but is depressed, tired and just doesn’t have the energy right now to do the cognitive restructure on the issue which she (very likely) probably wants to do.  I could be wrong – but if I’m not, and she decides to change her mind because of one piece of encouragement derived from ‘whomever’ –

and that’s what I come here for in the first place. I appreciate EVERY bit of advice I’ve received here, and it has been valuable as well. But…talk about IRONY. After reading responses here, I decided on a plan of action. I was soooo depressed anyway that I thought, "why not take a chance on something????" A bit of background…my BF is, overall,  a supportive person but has his own personal issues….as well he might, considering his childhood. We’re two "wounded" people trying to make sense of our lives and each other…….and it isn’t always a wonderful relationship. He’s Irish, salt please…I have Irish blood in my veins also) So, he isn’t the perfectly "safe" person for me, but I don’t expect that of anyone. toward a vacation, using incremental exposure to approach the May vacation. I went to Expedia.com and thought about what short flight I could take to find out, in the first place, if I even still have a flying phobia. My BF has all of next week off, was going to go to Myrtle Beach to play looking at flights for next week. Once I decide on something, I want to jump into it asap. I looked up flights from Ithaca, NY to Norfolk, VA.  A car from there, and lodgings for 3 nights on the outer banks of North Carolina. Found a hotel there that seemed lovely, oceanfront and all…..indoor/outdoor I MADE THE RESERVATION FOR THE HOTEL…..what a step for me. Didn’t confirm the flights, was waiting on word from my BF that all was well on his end for this trip. But me….it really sounds pathetic, considering how far this is to fly, and how dull it is compared to going directly to Ta-Ta Island, but I was feeling excited as all hell. My BF has diabetes, and his numbers have been running really high (due to job stress, I feel) When I told him about all of this, he said that he had to get to the doctor next week. I can understand we did have quite an argument, because I know that he could have seen effectively took the wind out of my sails…….was very negative, and I realized that he was just not into this trip. God, I was so looking forward to coming here and posting about what I was going to do. I felt so damned proud of myself. I felt that if I made these flights successfully that the next step could easily be a trip to Costa Rica…….I had started to visualize myself getting on a plane, and recalled how much I used to love the feeling of it’s of being "stuck" in a situation or place) My feelings are all over the place right now, I’m pissed off w/my BF, I’ve opened a window that I won’t easily close again. Damn, if I need to find another flying partner, if that’s what it takes, I’ll do it. I always ramble like hell here, sorry about that. then it was worth the time to post the encouragement.  This is my own view on it.  My views are reflective of opportunities lost to anxiety over the years

You and Elliot do like to go at it, Gary…..I would like to see you two duke it out in a boxing ring for Thinkers. NO physical contact, only rhetoric allowed. Bottom line –  I think maybe, and you think maybe not.  Sharon will figure it out.

I will figure everything out and solve the problem of world hunger

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I’m so sorry to hear about your boyfriend, but congrats to you for your determination.  I just got back yesterday from a week long vacation and will share my experience with you & hopefully try and keep your spirits up, in the event that you do decide to go somewhere…  I left Idaho for California last Sunday the 5th at 6am in the morning.  I’m going to be comletely honest and say it was extreme hell that day!  I had to get up at 4 in the morning, which really screwed things up and my kid woke me up about every hour, so needless to say i did not get much sleep that night and my anxiety seems to be a little worse when i don’t sleep well…  i got to the local airport here in boise at about 5:00 and had to wait for an hour!!!!  In the meantime, the lights, noise and god awful carpet pattern were getting to me and i could feel a panic attack coming!  I took my daily dose of 1 mg xanax xr and by the time i got to my first layover in seattle, wa i was much better!  the xanax doesn’t get rid of the panic, but it does help me deal with it!  Had an hour layover there and did just fine!  Then my 9 yr. old and i headed off to san diego and stayed there for 3 days!  Got a little freaked out after i got the rental car and got lost trying to find my way to the motel – the freaking out wasn’t pd related, though, was tired and the car rental company kept me there for an hour, giving me a run around.  Not to mention my daughter was very whiny because she was tired!  Made it to the motel, took a nap and headed for a beach that evening!  No more problems with panic that day!  Woke up the next day and we went to the san diego zoo until 4 in the afternoon!  Was a little panicky that day, but worked through it for my daughter’s sake and refused to bolt, like i wanted to and after a couple of hours, the panic was gone and we had a great time!  The next day on Tuesday, had the worst day of the whole week.  My daughter had a temper tantrum because she wasn’t able to go on a roller coaster on mission beach that she really wanted to go on because according to their message it was closed.  Made her take a nap (sure the whole temper tanrum was just her being tired and disappointed) and when she woke up we headed over to the beach and belmont park.  Didn’t have any problems driving in the traffic (got lost again) or riding on the roller coaster (we got lucky and they had opened it again).  While walking on the beach, for whatever reason the sound of the ocean started to make me freak out!  I again, worked through it and must have done ok, because my daughter was none the wiser!  We left for Buena Park, CA the next day and made the mistake of leaving at 7 in the morning!  I was a little overly anxious and scared for about the first half an hour; not used to all that traffic – was a completely different world!  I told myself to snap out of it, it’s only crowded traffic and relaxed!  My daughter and i went to knott’s berry farm on last Wednesday and Disneyland on Thursday.  I went on most of the rides there, got lost once again on the way back from Disneyland and had absolutely no problems!  Left Buena Park on Friday to head for my cousins wedding in bakersfield, ca.  Again, no problems driving through Los Angeles and i didn’t have any panic attacks there or since i got back late yesterday afternoon!  I had a blast and am so happy i went!  I even got completely trashed (yes, i said drunk) at the wedding and luckily it didn’t make my panic spike! I think the anticipation was the worst, but i felt obligated to my daughter to show her a good time and i’m sure i would have had the major panic attack whether i was here or not, especially since i had a cold return last week).  i’m glad i did it, even though the takeoff and landing of planes scare the shit out of me, xanax or no xanax, the dr. wants me to start taking the xanax xr every other day (we’re back on the addiction bullshit), although they are still more than happy to put me on lexapro (which i guess they don’t realize that your body becomes dependent to that also)!  I feel pretty confidant that i might have some success with it after the trip.  Hell, I didn’t even freak out when my 4 hour flight turned into a 7-8 hour trip due to layovers from the crappy airport in San Francisco (no offense to any of ya that live there).  I am so glad that you are still considering it, if you get to go anywhere, you’ll be very surprised at what it does for your confidence…

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It’s fine – it’s my experience – and in the context of wanting to do something in the ‘obligatory’ sense – or a ‘have to’ – we should have learned that there are no must dos. It’s imperative to being healthy and in able to help in recovery. This is a vacation – so obligation seems the last thing to make into some sort of ‘coping method’ as it’s supposed to be enjoyed. I’d love to see a list of things that are "obligations" that are usually enjoyable. I think control (obligation fits into this category) is germane to the whole issue of the vacation….another long story of childhood pathology (on BF’s part) here, too complex to address now. that this might be a large factor in why this short vacation didn’t suit my guy. I was insisting on paying for my half of the trip……he’s a modern man, but has issues w/this and I think that they pertain to control. I just wish I had the cayuns to try a flight by myself, beholden to no one else. I don’t like power plays, unless they involve silk ties, my cat-o-nine-tails, and a camcorder, in the middle of the night. Nudge nudge wink wink say no more.

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if one were to go to the airport, set up for a pretty short flight (but in a BIG plane – they’re far better and more comfortable) – would it seem too difficult to find someone in the waiting area and explain that you’re a bit afraid? You could explain that you used to fly – but it’s been years because of "Darwin’s Disease"

*Love* it! Hehe. P. (Mc) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Obviously the OP knows perfectly well that she doesn’t have an "obligation" to do anything.  Not only from the abject content of her posts on this thread, but from reading her other posts, musings etc. One can tell that this is not a person who lacks insight and creativity, imagination and the ability to step outside the mental "box" (so to speak) even if for just a minute, if that’s all she decides it’s worth spending there. I was merely suggesting a *possible* coping strategy that she could use (if she wanted to, and she knows the difference) which is sometimes used by people with success.  Evidently you do not experience anything you would call "success" when framing something in the "obligatory" category, and that’s obviously completely fine.  That you can remove most, if not all obligations is even better.  (How do you do it with the IRS, I’ll pay you well for that little secret…) Your point about options as they relate to anticipatory anxiety is well-taken, and is certainly well-known to me (and not just something I read in some book either…) however, I feel the need to say again that this was merely a possible mental re-frame idea for this particular person. Re. the whole discussion of "going along just because", I don’t think that is what’s going on here.  Obviously I cannot know with certainty, but I will cite the things that cause me to think what I do, about this: "He and I have both talked about how much fun it would be to go to a sandy beach-barefoot-palm tree type of place…." "Costa Rica is one of our ideas." I sense *collaborative* here.  Maybe I’m wrong. "neither of us is getting any younger." I’ve never heard anybody use that whole "not getting any younger" thing unless they were thinking about doing something. "We want to have fun while we’re youngish." Again, it’s plural.. "I don’t want to miss out on a potentially wonderful experience, but I don’t want to be returned to the US in a straitjacket." That reminds me of, "I don’t want to buy a fur coat because of all the stigma and spray-paint, but I love fur coats SO much…."  Maybe not THE perfect analogy, but it’s good enough for ‘off the clock’.  It’s approach/avoidance conflict, and yes, it’s a conflict with genesis in anxiety-disordered thought. I think the reason that I’m even re-visiting this at all is because her avoidance appears to have come straight from the ‘catastrophizing department’ of her mind.  We all know how to get to that department, and many of us are fairly good at walking away from it also.  The presented/perceived options are (a) go on a wonderful vacation and come home in a straight-jacket or (b) go nowhere/have "re-run" vacation in Toronto. At least that’s what I’m seeing here.  I’m sure you would agree that there are other "options" besides those two scenarios.  The OP cites fear of losing mind while flying  -  not to minimize her symptoms or their import in Sharon’s life, but that is really a rather common issue with phobic or panic material, as you surely know.  It’s pharmacy solvable (likely), and she also catastrophized that.  Rather than taking some meds to tolerate flying and not "lose my mind", she spoke of going to a beach paradise and "staying wasted half the time" (which personally …..well, that would just be so untoward, never mind).  Is "staying wasted half the time"  a bit catastrophic maybe?  Is it also the ONLY option, if we bring pharmacy solutions in here?  Rhetoric, I apologize…….(question withdrawn) I made the statements I made, which I still believe are a valid and reasonable approach, btw, because it is almost blatantly obvious that Sharon DOES want to have this experience, but is depressed, tired and just doesn’t have the energy right now to do the cognitive restructure on the issue which she (very likely) probably wants to do.  I could be wrong – but if I’m not, and she decides to change her mind because of one piece of encouragement derived from ‘whomever’ – then it was worth the time to post the encouragement.  This is my own view on it.  My views are reflective of opportunities lost to anxiety over the years, and yours *have the appearance* of regret or anger (or some negative link) between trying (perhaps unsuccessfully at the time) to push past fear/anxiety and the resultant hellish trips – and I can totally relate to that.  I wish I had done more of it, you wish you had done less – I suspect.  Neither point of view is really better or worse, when it gets sorted out.  Sharon is the one, in this case, who has to sort THIS one out. None of your points are lacking in validity at all, in fact they are very good concepts for people to think about, in their own right.  I’m just not sure that staying in the comfort zone is ALWAYS the best thing to do.  It might be for this trip; it might not be.  Sharon gets 100% of those votes. Some "not so conducive to courageous living" symptoms are suggested – guilt, anhedonia, feeling depressed.  I think it’s worth it (to Sharon) to revisit the idea when she’s feeling a little bit better.  Revisit does not mean go, it just means revisit the idea.  I personally hope she can, and does. Bottom line –  I think maybe, and you think maybe not.  Sharon will figure it out. G ps – please do not literalize the IRS thing, I fully know what you’re speaking of, to the extent possible on a screen.  –g

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – communication, so pecked out: I think you maybe should approach it as an obligation I think maybe not. I believe that obligation means "must go" and I feel there are no MUST anythings.  MUST also takes options out of the equation, to a great extent. I find (and feel) that having choices and options, when it comes to travel, are key points in alleviating anticipatory anxiety, which in turn, can make a trip fun or hell (at least the perception before the fact). From the start (first post) – the vacation shouldn’t be something being done for another person. People pleasing is all too easy a trap to fall into and it seems to spiral into a life style that supports an anxiety disorder (enables it, if you will). Personally, I gave up ‘obligations’ and just stayed away from anything that smacked of one for many many years (that means more than two I did the ‘obligation’ thing for a bit too long – and all it did was fester the sore. When I decided that I’d just sit back, NOT do what others expected, I’d be saving myself ulcers or just plain slow death. In the long run, it’s worked out that slowly working up to those things that seemed so horrid before, are now MY idea, or at least in my view, not something totally dreaded any longer. Not all obligations are dreaded – but I suspect that it’s a corner that many just don’t want to be in, but go along with ‘just because.’ That’s always seemed and proven counter productive to me. See what one little word can do?? <snipped I agree, Gary….but the anticipatory anxiety I face regarding a vacation has made me realize that perhaps it just isn’t worth it. It is supposed to be a fun thing, and I’m not approaching it in that mindset at all……so what’s the point? — Elliott remove yourshoes to email http://www.unitedmedia.com/creators/ballardst/ If you want a new idea, read an old book.

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( I agree, Gary….but the anticipatory anxiety I face regarding a vacation has made me realize that perhaps it just isn’t worth it. It is supposed to be a fun thing, and I’m not approaching it in that mindset at all……so what’s the point?

Sharon, i can go to Costa Rica in 2.3 seconds but i can’t walk out’ah the house to go to McDonalds…. what GIVES here? i think i did my own CBT or sumthin ta get me to that point or sumthin.  i think the little things are in my realm of ‘acceptance" now.  i KNOW why i can do the bigger things. i gave up the illusion of control. when ya get on that plane, yer done.  yer no longer responsible.  and then i realized the people that i gave my "control" to,  (which is really power) gave me a break from me.  these pilots had families, relatives, loved ones, and they had as much to be afraid of or "reasons for anxiety" as i did, and in reality, maybe more.  their stress level was more existent in driving home from the airport, i found (cuz i used ta beg ta sit in tha jump-seat) when i spoke with them.  it was a little bit of ‘ok, listen to them, tanya, this AIN’T THEIR FIRST DAY’… and i gotta tad sensible about it.  i asked em so many questions that they probly wanted ta run into a side of a mountain, cuz i was way annoying, but they didn’t.  they tolerated me, and if they could do that, they had sum kinda power i was forced to trust and i love to do stuff so i made it an acceptable thing to go anywhere. the worst part was knowing once i got to my destination and wanted ta party like it was 1999 that i had ta go back home so i had to try another method of acceptence, and that became "knowing i could always stay where i got to"… i didn’t HAVE to go back home, but in reality, i would.  third world countries were not exactly where i wanted ta stay, nor were cruise ships or places where people bad bad tattoos.  i knew i couldn’t stay at my friend’s houses (or i’d surely be killed with a butcher knife and i couldn’t afford ta LIVE in NY anymore) and the pilots went home, they took everyone else home, so there ya go. PLUS…. costa rica is a great place ta be nekkid.  ALLAH TIME !  i simply gave up that control and talked to myself about the worst that could happen.  which is?  i die. wellllllllll, in tha air, there’s no fender benders, i knew i’d just die and never know it.  that became a comfort.  i’m gonna die anyway, so what’s tha dif?  i truly have faith that all fear is based on ‘death’ and the only true fear IS death.  as icky as it is, WHO cares when ya get there, it’s not’ah foot race.  i’d rather get ta that ultimate destination via costa rica than McDonalds. how boutchu? no, i still can’t do the little things, i can’t bring myself to reckon with them, but that’s next. I know that my Klonopin would help….and that I don’t take nearly the prescribed dose, so I could literally knock myself out for flights with the storehouse I have of it……what good is that? Go to a beach paradise and stay wasted half of the time?

HOLY SHIT !  YA AIN’T S’POSED TA BE WASTED HALF THA TIME??????  now ya tell me.  i should’ah fired that cabana boy on tha SPOT ! HEDONISM III MUCH BE DESTROYED ! I know that this is dreadfully negative but my depression is rearing

ya have choices, Sharon… and feelings are a choice, and i truly hope you find a way to know you are NEVER in control and you DO have power over the illusion of control, you DO have power… and also, you have power over the feelings of a need for control. I thank you all for your input and I’m sorry that I’m not worthy of it at this point.

can i have yer ticket? This is not snivelling shit…

then stop yer fuckin’ snivellin’ and get on that plane, it could save you from a certain death at tha drive-thru at Micky D’s ! it’s just the truth.

there’s no truth, either, there’s only perception. now GET ON THAT PLANE ! don’t make me come ovah theah. (whyyyyyyyyyyy, i oughta…….) or send me that ticket and i’ll send ya pics from costa rica ! (butcha gotta see me nekkid) and remember…. yo DO have that seat cushion as’ah floatation device and seriously, what is your fear? do ya know? ~tanya

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You know your life best, obviously.  Which is why only you can take that close look….you know, that really CLOSE look that most of us REALLY don’t like doing….. I think you maybe should approach it as an obligation, a part of the year, rather than a vacation per se.  A total re-frame.  Not easy to do.  But then slowly and surely, things change, and one day, it becomes easy enough. You are certainly worth the effort, and it is folly to think we can prevent ALL difficulties. Hang in there.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some things, let’s face it, are just plain best solved pharmaceutically. I think the "dread" of a Costa Rican free vacation is definitely (definitely) a strong contender. I agree, Gary….but the anticipatory anxiety I face regarding a vacation has made me realize that perhaps it just isn’t worth it. It is supposed to be a fun thing, and I’m not approaching it in that mindset at all……so what’s the point? I know that my Klonopin would help….and that I don’t take nearly the prescribed dose, so I could literally knock myself out for flights with the storehouse I have of it……what good is that? Go to a beach paradise and stay wasted half of the time? I know that this is dreadfully negative but my depression is rearing thank you all for your input and I’m sorry that I’m not worthy of it at this point. This is not snivelling shit….it’s just the truth. -Sharon G hi Gary, If meds help I agree this a time to use them or up the dosage. Whilst clonazepam helps me generally keep anxiety at bay it doesn’t do anything for me when I’m facing major anxiety. In the end I need to rely on my self to get through tough situations, even simple things like getting to work. But if a temp increase in meds work go for it I would have to use a busload of the Klonopin, Vanessa…….might as that some things are just beyond me at this point, out of my reach. -Sharon Vanessa

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some things, let’s face it, are just plain best solved pharmaceutically. I think the "dread" of a Costa Rican free vacation is definitely (definitely) a strong contender. I agree, Gary….but the anticipatory anxiety I face regarding a vacation has made me realize that perhaps it just isn’t worth it. It is supposed to be a fun thing, and I’m not approaching it in that mindset at all……so what’s the point? I know that my Klonopin would help….and that I don’t take nearly the prescribed dose, so I could literally knock myself out for flights with the storehouse I have of it……what good is that? Go to a beach paradise and stay wasted half of the time? I know that this is dreadfully negative but my depression is rearing thank you all for your input and I’m sorry that I’m not worthy of it at this point. This is not snivelling shit….it’s just the truth. -Sharon G hi Gary, If meds help I agree this a time to use them or up the dosage. Whilst clonazepam helps me generally keep anxiety at bay it doesn’t do anything for me when I’m facing major anxiety. In the end I need to rely on my self to get through tough situations, even simple things like getting to work. But if a temp increase in meds work go for it I would have to use a busload of the Klonopin, Vanessa…….might as that some things are just beyond me at this point, out of my reach. -Sharon

Hi Sharon, if this is not the best time for you then that’s fine. My therapist taught me not to avoid but he also said there was no point in exposing yourself to a situation if your anxiety levels are way too high. Retreating is ok as there will be other times you can try when you’re more able to. You are certainly worthy Take care of yourself Vanessa

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Some things, let’s face it, are just plain best solved pharmaceutically. I think the "dread" of a Costa Rican free vacation is definitely (definitely) a strong contender. G

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey cowpokes, I haven’t travelled much because of anxiety for more than 20 years now. I’ve only been to see friends or go camping a maxiumum of 5 hours away from home, and that was with difficulty. The situation is this: my boyfriend has a vacation coming up, and the poor guy works his ass off. He and I have both talked about how much fun it would be to go to a sandy beach-barefoot-palm tree type of place….Costa Rica is one of our ideas. He deserves to do what he wants to do on his vacation, and there is the fact that he’s footing the bill….and neither of us is getting any younger. We want to have fun while we’re youngish.  He deals with my anxiety disorder quite well, and accepts my travel limitations. So he is very willing to go to Toronto, where a couple of dear friends of mine live, and make a vacation out of that. We would have fun, no doubt. But this is something we’ve already done together. I talked with my shrink the other day, and mentioned this. He asked what my big fear was when it came to travel. I told him that it was of losing my mind, losing control of myself, in an airplane or in a place far from home. Then he asked that dreaded question, the "what would happen if you lost your mind or control" question. Well, in a couple of different situations, I feel that I nearly lost my mind, but there were extenuating circumstances. (alcoholism, drug withdrawal) And I’ve seen people have nervous breakdowns, so I know that it CAN happen….that scares the hell out of me. But could I lose it???…I have a neurosis, not a psychosis, but there’s still that fear….and….what do flight attendants do with people if they freak on a flight, does anyone know? Should I ask my shrink for a powerful med to take if I "lost it" on a flight??? I’m all over the place, rambling here……sorry, it just shows my confusion….I don’t want to miss out on a potentially wonderful experience, but I don’t want to be returned to the US in a straitjacket. But I can also envision myself with him on a beach, topless, laughing, half-mad with happiness and dumping sand in his shorts. A friend mentioned that I might want to start working on positive visualization now….but that technique never worked with me. I think I’m short on imagination. wondering whether to post this and my screensaver popped up. Damn I’m dumb. Hi Sharon, I used to be just like you with holidays. I’d avoid them if I could because I the thought of being far from home filled me with anxiety. The fight/flight response in you is what is keeping you so close to home but it’s also limiting you from so much fun in life. I’m not saying it will be easy but it sure is possible to go on a holiday if you really want to go and actually have a fun time. I’ll admit I’ve had some panic attacks whilst on holidays … I HAD a real beauty in Greece but a Panic attack at home or away is still a panic attack and I managed to get through it. When I think back to that holiday now I remember all the great times. So if you truly want to go on holiday you can. The anticipation is the worst part but you can counter all the negatives with a plan of attack on how to deal with certain situations. If flying is an issue there are lots of tips we can offer you as many of us have dealt with this. You might like to try a short plane trip for starters. I’ve got lots of other tips on keeping yourself distracted and I too am not good at positive visualisation so don’t use that as an excuse Take care, Vanessa

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Hey there, Thanks so much for putting the thought and time into replying. It has given me lots of food for thought, and encouragement. And I know that what each of you has said is the truth….and comes from great experience. Today was not a good day, so it’s hard for me to reply….but I wanted XOX Sharon

Response:

Hey cowpokes, I haven’t travelled much because of anxiety for more than 20 years now. I’ve only been to see friends or go camping a maxiumum of 5 hours away from home, and that was with difficulty. The situation is this: my boyfriend has a vacation coming up, and the poor guy works his ass off.

…..AND what’ah nice ass ah’tis ! He and I have both talked about how much fun it would be to go to a sandy beach-barefoot-palm tree type of place….Costa Rica is one of our ideas.

, the "what would happen if you lost your mind or control" question. Well, in a couple of different situations, I feel that I nearly lost my mind, but there were extenuating circumstances. (alcoholism, drug withdrawal)

"Monty Python and the Holy Grail" may be the silliest film ever put on celluloid. It rarely makes sense, sometimes falls a bit flat, but always puts a smile on your face. And that’s an achievement. And I’ve seen people have nervous breakdowns, so I know that it CAN happen….that scares the hell out of me.

"Monty Python and the Holy Grail" may be the silliest film ever put on celluloid. It rarely makes sense, sometimes falls a bit flat, but always puts a smile on your face. And that’s an achievement. But could I lose it???..

no, once ya sell somethin’, stop sellin’ it. and once ya lost it?  ya can’t lose it no more. .I have a neurosis,

nawwwwww……. fa REAL? not a psychosis, but there’s still that fear….and….what do flight attendants do with people if they freak on a flight, does anyone know?

yeah, *i* know. Should I ask my shrink for a powerful med to take if I "lost it" on a flight???

if ya wanna die happy, yeah. I’m all over the place, rambling here……sorry, it just shows my confusion….I don’t want to miss out on a potentially wonderful experience, but I don’t want to be returned to the US in a straitjacket. But I can also envision myself with him on a beach, topless, laughing, half-mad with happiness and dumping sand in his shorts.

oh VOMIT ! now sand in YER shorts?  thassah nuthah story. A friend mentioned that I might want to start working on positive visualization now….but that technique never worked with me. I think I’m short on imagination.

NO YER NOT ! wondering whether to post this and my screensaver popped up.

and ya went with THIS? Damn I’m dumb.

golly gee whiz !  thanks for hippin’ us ta THAT, dude ! ok… i’m pee wee herman now. ~hmmph. ~t

Response:

Some things, let’s face it, are just plain best solved pharmaceutically. I think the "dread" of a Costa Rican free vacation is definitely (definitely) a strong contender.

I agree, Gary….but the anticipatory anxiety I face regarding a vacation has made me realize that perhaps it just isn’t worth it. It is supposed to be a fun thing, and I’m not approaching it in that mindset at all……so what’s the point? I know that my Klonopin would help….and that I don’t take nearly the prescribed dose, so I could literally knock myself out for flights with the storehouse I have of it……what good is that? Go to a beach paradise and stay wasted half of the time? I know that this is dreadfully negative but my depression is rearing thank you all for your input and I’m sorry that I’m not worthy of it at this point. This is not snivelling shit….it’s just the truth. -Sharon G hi Gary, If meds help I agree this a time to use them or up the dosage. Whilst clonazepam helps me generally keep anxiety at bay it doesn’t do anything for me when I’m facing major anxiety. In the end I need to rely on my self to get through tough situations, even simple things like getting to work. But if a temp increase in meds work go for it

I would have to use a busload of the Klonopin, Vanessa…….might as that some things are just beyond me at this point, out of my reach. -Sharon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Vanessa

Response:

Some things, let’s face it, are just plain best solved pharmaceutically. I think the "dread" of a Costa Rican free vacation is definitely (definitely) a strong contender. G

hi Gary, If meds help I agree this a time to use them or up the dosage. Whilst clonazepam helps me generally keep anxiety at bay it doesn’t do anything for me when I’m facing major anxiety. In the end I need to rely on my self to get through tough situations, even simple things like getting to work. But if a temp increase in meds work go for it Vanessa

Response:

Hey there, Thanks so much for putting the thought and time into replying. It has given me lots of food for thought, and encouragement. And I know that what each of you has said is the truth….and comes from great experience. Today was not a good day, so it’s hard for me to reply….but I wanted

oh Sharon……. i was SO just joshin’ with ya…… i meant nothing serious. i promise. please watch American Idol lin 58 minutes, k? we can dance ! ~t..

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey cowpokes, I haven’t travelled much because of anxiety for more than 20 years now. I’ve only been to see friends or go camping a maxiumum of 5 hours away from home, and that was with difficulty. The situation is this: my boyfriend has a vacation coming up, and the poor guy works his ass off. He and I have both talked about how much fun it would be to go to a sandy beach-barefoot-palm tree type of place….Costa Rica is one of our ideas. He deserves to do what he wants to do on his vacation, and there is the fact that he’s footing the bill….and neither of us is getting any younger. We want to have fun while we’re youngish.  He deals with my anxiety disorder quite well, and accepts my travel limitations. So he is very willing to go to Toronto, where a couple of dear friends of mine live, and make a vacation out of that. We would have fun, no doubt. But this is something we’ve already done together. I talked with my shrink the other day, and mentioned this. He asked what my big fear was when it came to travel. I told him that it was of losing my mind, losing control of myself, in an airplane or in a place far from home. Then he asked that dreaded question, the "what would happen if you lost your mind or control" question. Well, in a couple of different situations, I feel that I nearly lost my mind, but there were extenuating circumstances. (alcoholism, drug withdrawal) And I’ve seen people have nervous breakdowns, so I know that it CAN happen….that scares the hell out of me. But could I lose it???…I have a neurosis, not a psychosis, but there’s still that fear….and….what do flight attendants do with people if they freak on a flight, does anyone know? Should I ask my shrink for a powerful med to take if I "lost it" on a flight??? I’m all over the place, rambling here……sorry, it just shows my confusion….I don’t want to miss out on a potentially wonderful experience, but I don’t want to be returned to the US in a straitjacket. But I can also envision myself with him on a beach, topless, laughing, half-mad with happiness and dumping sand in his shorts. A friend mentioned that I might want to start working on positive visualization now….but that technique never worked with me. I think I’m short on imagination. wondering whether to post this and my screensaver popped up. Damn I’m dumb.

Hi Sharon, I used to be just like you with holidays. I’d avoid them if I could because I the thought of being far from home filled me with anxiety. The fight/flight response in you is what is keeping you so close to home but it’s also limiting you from so much fun in life. I’m not saying it will be easy but it sure is possible to go on a holiday if you really want to go and actually have a fun time. I’ll admit I’ve had some panic attacks whilst on holidays … I HAD a real beauty in Greece but a Panic attack at home or away is still a panic attack and I managed to get through it. When I think back to that holiday now I remember all the great times. So if you truly want to go on holiday you can. The anticipation is the worst part but you can counter all the negatives with a plan of attack on how to deal with certain situations. If flying is an issue there are lots of tips we can offer you as many of us have dealt with this. You might like to try a short plane trip for starters. I’ve got lots of other tips on keeping yourself distracted and I too am not good at positive visualisation so don’t use that as an excuse Take care, Vanessa

Response:

Then he asked that dreaded question, the "what would happen if you lost your mind or control" question. Why is that question "dreaded" by you?  I see it as (remember, this is just what GARY sees….) your doctor’s attempt to challenge neurotic (self-defeating) beliefs by getting you to challenge them yourself.  That is what you pay him for.  Sometimes people do hold their neurotic beliefs (I have my own, and know this) very tightly, and it’s very hard to let go of them.  It was "very hard" to do any number of other things in your life, I’m sure, but you did.  I think you might benefit from concentrating on your successes rather than what you perceive as "failures" or "limitations". "Costa Rica is one of our ideas" I think it’s an excellent one.  It is stated as "our" idea.  You also say that "we" want to have fun.  Yes, you could probably have fun in Toronto, but as you suggested, you feel like that’s a little bit ‘played’, and want something different. "5 hours away from home" I can only speak from my own experience on this, but 5 hours away from home is just as hard to walk back home from as 20 hours is – basically.  The point being, you are away from home.  You have already shown yourself that you can do that.  You know that you can do that.  I didn’t feel any different in Savannah (an hour and a half away) than I did in Niagara Falls – either way, my own bed was not there.  What I chose to focus on was what WAS there.  In your case, a fun person, a relaxing place, probably better weather.  I think a minor shift in focus would be very helpful. "What is going to be great about this?" is the question to ask.  Likely many things will, and those are the things to focus on.  So you take a couple extra pills – so what? "Well, in a couple of different situations, I feel that I nearly lost my mind, but there were extenuating circumstances. (alcoholism, drug withdrawal)" Frankly, I don’t see those as "extenuating" circumstances – they were the predominant circumstances.  Having just done a minor version of drug withdrawal, I feel some right to speak on this – not utter authority, but some right.  Actually, it wasn’t that minor, just stopping a pain pill after a couple months, it was horrible – it was predominant, absolutely.  So much so, that I will NEVER do that again, so help me god. If you really get unbelievably anxious, there is always a 2.5 mg Zyprexa option.  It’s an amazing thing.  Obviously I don’t know what you take, if you can take that at all, etc. etc. but I’m sure your doctor does.  Chances are you will come home from Costa Rica with the same amount of your "emergency drug to prevent total loss of your mind" as you left with. Remind yourself that people go to places like that usually to prevent themselves from losing their minds.  I want to say "wow, I wish that was MY anxiety issue – "gee, should I GO to Costa Rica, all-expenses-paid?", but that would appear as though I’m minimalizing your problem.  Pain/anxiety etc. are singular and I do realize this.  All in all though, from what you’ve said in this post, it sounds VERY do-able for you. Recreation = RE – CREATION       consider that for a bit. As to "deserves" – my take on that – your boyfriend deserves to seek the kind of relationship he wants to be in – it’s actually a constitutional right (pursuit of happiness).  Incidentally, you also have this right.  Why don’t you pursue the phone number of the Costa Rica Vacation Company and this little "situation" will suddenly be a "great big fabulous event that happened this year". I hope that helped somewhere.  I know Sharon, that you already know a lot of what I said here, but sometimes just hearing someone else say it – throws it into a different place. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey cowpokes, I haven’t travelled much because of anxiety for more than 20 years now. I’ve only been to see friends or go camping a maxiumum of 5 hours away from home, and that was with difficulty. The situation is this: my boyfriend has a vacation coming up, and the poor guy works his ass off. He and I have both talked about how much fun it would be to go to a sandy beach-barefoot-palm tree type of place….Costa Rica is one of our ideas. He deserves to do what he wants to do on his vacation, and there is the fact that he’s footing the bill….and neither of us is getting any younger. We want to have fun while we’re youngish.  He deals with my anxiety disorder quite well, and accepts my travel limitations. So he is very willing to go to Toronto, where a couple of dear friends of mine live, and make a vacation out of that. We would have fun, no doubt. But this is something we’ve already done together. I talked with my shrink the other day, and mentioned this. He asked what my big fear was when it came to travel. I told him that it was of losing my mind, losing control of myself, in an airplane or in a place far from home. Then he asked that dreaded question, the "what would happen if you lost your mind or control" question. Well, in a couple of different situations, I feel that I nearly lost my mind, but there were extenuating circumstances. (alcoholism, drug withdrawal) And I’ve seen people have nervous breakdowns, so I know that it CAN happen….that scares the hell out of me. But could I lose it???…I have a neurosis, not a psychosis, but there’s still that fear….and….what do flight attendants do with people if they freak on a flight, does anyone know? Should I ask my shrink for a powerful med to take if I "lost it" on a flight??? I’m all over the place, rambling here……sorry, it just shows my confusion….I don’t want to miss out on a potentially wonderful experience, but I don’t want to be returned to the US in a straitjacket. But I can also envision myself with him on a beach, topless, laughing, half-mad with happiness and dumping sand in his shorts. A friend mentioned that I might want to start working on positive visualization now….but that technique never worked with me. I think I’m short on imagination. wondering whether to post this and my screensaver popped up. Damn I’m dumb.

Response:

As others have already said, Sharon…. the actual event will be much less traumatic than the anticipatory anxiety beforehand.  You have something very positive and fun to look forward to.  If you need some Xanax or other med to help calm your nerves, then do so… It can’t hurt!  I hope you will be able to try this.  I’m sure flight attendants could be helpful to you.  If I’m particularly anxious upon boarding the plane, I mention it to the flight attendants… and ask them to please check on me during the flight.  I have always found them most receptive to this…. and very helpful. You don’t mention if you have ever flown…. or if you will have to change flights. Take care…. MikeH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey cowpokes, I haven’t travelled much because of anxiety for more than 20 years now. I’ve only been to see friends or go camping a maxiumum of 5 hours away from home, and that was with difficulty. The situation is this: my boyfriend has a vacation coming up, and the poor guy works his ass off. He and I have both talked about how much fun it would be to go to a sandy beach-barefoot-palm tree type of place….Costa Rica is one of our ideas. He deserves to do what he wants to do on his vacation, and there is the fact that he’s footing the bill….and neither of us is getting any younger. We want to have fun while we’re youngish.  He deals with my anxiety disorder quite well, and accepts my travel limitations. So he is very willing to go to Toronto, where a couple of dear friends of mine live, and make a vacation out of that. We would have fun, no doubt. But this is something we’ve already done together. I talked with my shrink the other day, and mentioned this. He asked what my big fear was when it came to travel. I told him that it was of losing my mind, losing control of myself, in an airplane or in a place far from home. Then he asked that dreaded question, the "what would happen if you lost your mind or control" question. Well, in a couple of different situations, I feel that I nearly lost my mind, but there were extenuating circumstances. (alcoholism, drug withdrawal) And I’ve seen people have nervous breakdowns, so I know that it CAN happen….that scares the hell out of me. But could I lose it???…I have a neurosis, not a psychosis, but there’s still that fear….and….what do flight attendants do with people if they freak on a flight, does anyone know? Should I ask my shrink for a powerful med to take if I "lost it" on a flight??? I’m all over the place, rambling here……sorry, it just shows my confusion….I don’t want to miss out on a potentially wonderful experience, but I don’t want to be returned to the US in a straitjacket. But I can also envision myself with him on a beach, topless, laughing, half-mad with happiness and dumping sand in his shorts. A friend mentioned that I might want to start working on positive visualization now….but that technique never worked with me. I think I’m short on imagination. wondering whether to post this and my screensaver popped up. Damn I’m dumb.

Response:

Then he asked that dreaded question, the "what would happen if you lost your mind or control" question.

Please none of your sexual shit here.

Response:

Hey cowpokes, I haven’t travelled much because of anxiety for more than 20 years now. I’ve only been to see friends or go camping a maxiumum of 5 hours away from home, and that was with difficulty. The situation is this: my boyfriend has a vacation coming up, and the poor guy works his ass off. He and I have both talked about how much fun it would be to go to a sandy beach-barefoot-palm tree type of place….Costa Rica is one of our ideas. He deserves to do what he wants to do on his vacation, and there is the fact that he’s footing the bill….and neither of us is getting any younger. We want to have fun while we’re youngish.  He deals with my anxiety disorder quite well, and accepts my travel limitations. So he is very willing to go to Toronto, where a couple of dear friends of mine live, and make a vacation out of that. We would have fun, no doubt. But this is something we’ve already done together. I talked with my shrink the other day, and mentioned this. He asked what my big fear was when it came to travel. I told him that it was of losing my mind, losing control of myself, in an airplane or in a place far from home. Then he asked that dreaded question, the "what would happen if you lost your mind or control" question. Well, in a couple of different situations, I feel that I nearly lost my mind, but there were extenuating circumstances. (alcoholism, drug withdrawal) And I’ve seen people have nervous breakdowns, so I know that it CAN happen….that scares the hell out of me. But could I lose it???…I have a neurosis, not a psychosis, but there’s still that fear….and….what do flight attendants do with people if they freak on a flight, does anyone know? Should I ask my shrink for a powerful med to take if I "lost it" on a flight??? I’m all over the place, rambling here……sorry, it just shows my confusion….I don’t want to miss out on a potentially wonderful experience, but I don’t want to be returned to the US in a straitjacket. But I can also envision myself with him on a beach, topless, laughing, half-mad with happiness and dumping sand in his shorts. A friend mentioned that I might want to start working on positive visualization now….but that technique never worked with me. I think I’m short on imagination. wondering whether to post this and my screensaver popped up. Damn I’m dumb.

Response:

You sound like you really want to go, so why not talk to pdoc about getting one of the benzos to help you out through this?  It sounds like a great opportunity, i’d hate to see you miss it because of the damned anxiety.  If it makes you feel any better, i am taking a vacation next week to california (live in idaho) and it will be just me and my daughter through the week.  I’m dreading the plane ride (and unfortunately, i have heard, although i am not positive, that if someone freaks out, they usually set the plane down and you may get kicked off, but i honestly have no idea, for sure, i know they do that for someone that gets rowdy or a drunk, anyways…), and the traffic through san diego and LA area.  For me, i think the benefits outweight the negatives, if i have a panic attack, i’ll deal with it.  If i’m going to have them, i’m going to have them no matter where i’m at and it sure beats the hell out of sitting at home and having them!  I also have my safety net of xanax which i think will help a little…  Just think if you go and accomplish it, what it will do for your mental well being and self esteem!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey cowpokes, I haven’t travelled much because of anxiety for more than 20 years now. I’ve only been to see friends or go camping a maxiumum of 5 hours away from home, and that was with difficulty. The situation is this: my boyfriend has a vacation coming up, and the poor guy works his ass off. He and I have both talked about how much fun it would be to go to a sandy beach-barefoot-palm tree type of place….Costa Rica is one of our ideas. He deserves to do what he wants to do on his vacation, and there is the fact that he’s footing the bill….and neither of us is getting any younger. We want to have fun while we’re youngish.  He deals with my anxiety disorder quite well, and accepts my travel limitations. So he is very willing to go to Toronto, where a couple of dear friends of mine live, and make a vacation out of that. We would have fun, no doubt. But this is something we’ve already done together. I talked with my shrink the other day, and mentioned this. He asked what my big fear was when it came to travel. I told him that it was of losing my mind, losing control of myself, in an airplane or in a place far from home. Then he asked that dreaded question, the "what would happen if you lost your mind or control" question. Well, in a couple of different situations, I feel that I nearly lost my mind, but there were extenuating circumstances. (alcoholism, drug withdrawal) And I’ve seen people have nervous breakdowns, so I know that it CAN happen….that scares the hell out of me. But could I lose it???…I have a neurosis, not a psychosis, but there’s still that fear….and….what do flight attendants do with people if they freak on a flight, does anyone know? Should I ask my shrink for a powerful med to take if I "lost it" on a flight??? I’m all over the place, rambling here……sorry, it just shows my confusion….I don’t want to miss out on a potentially wonderful experience, but I don’t want to be returned to the US in a straitjacket. But I can also envision myself with him on a beach, topless, laughing, half-mad with happiness and dumping sand in his shorts. A friend mentioned that I might want to start working on positive visualization now….but that technique never worked with me. I think I’m short on imagination. wondering whether to post this and my screensaver popped up. Damn I’m dumb.

Response:

Question:

Hello fellow inked people – I am wondering if anyone has any plans to get a remembrance tattoo. I’m starting to plan one for myself. I’d like to share thoughts, ideas, and experiences with anyone else who’s considering this. May we get through these times together. scmoore

Response:

Hello fellow inked people – I am wondering if anyone has any plans to get a remembrance tattoo. I’m starting to plan one for myself. I’d like to share thoughts, ideas, and experiences with anyone else who’s considering this.

I was planning on a Phoenix rising.  I am sure that everybody gets the symbolism so I won’t burden you with the explanation.  Recently I saw a Chinese stamp that vaguely resembled what I wanted.  I redrew it this morning to style-match another tattoo in the same area. Xine

Response:

Hello fellow inked people – I am wondering if anyone has any plans to get a remembrance tattoo. I’m starting to plan one for myself. I’d like to share thoughts, ideas, and experiences with anyone else who’s considering this. May we get through these times together. scmoore

I’m sorry, NO! Don’t commemorate Tuesday.  If you lost someone, commemorate their birthday, their life, their face, their whatever. YOU DO NOT COMMEMORATE THE BAD TIMES. It’s a very subtle point, and I know you get it. Kavin

Response:

kavin wrote Don’t commemorate Tuesday.  If you lost someone, commemorate their birthday, their life, their face, their whatever. YOU DO NOT COMMEMORATE THE BAD TIMES.

seconded.  my guess would be that the people who died would not want to be remembered the way they’ll be found, or the way they died.  honor their memory by commemorating them the way THEY would want to be remembered. ~ rebekah, shocked at the agreeance lishtrxbitch "This is no time to let your silver lining get all cloudy" ~ Valerie Irons, VIP "Anyone who would pull the intellectual snobbery bit on you isn’t worth your time anyway." ~ Mara, 31-JUL-2001 http://committed.to/tattoo

Response:

kavin wrote Don’t commemorate Tuesday.  If you lost someone, commemorate their birthday, their life, their face, their whatever. YOU DO NOT COMMEMORATE THE BAD TIMES. seconded.  my guess would be that the people who died would not want to be remembered the way they’ll be found, or the way they died.  honor their memory by commemorating them the way THEY would want to be remembered.

Indeed.  Lets forget all about the attack and only think of dead people. Makes sense. —–. — Theres a hole in the world like a great black pit and its filled with people who are filled with shit and the vermin of the world inhabit it

Response:

r honor their memory r by commemorating them the way THEY would want to be remembered.         in a bad tattoo, you mean? lish 35.1% / 28

Response:

Don’t commemorate Tuesday.  If you lost someone, commemorate their birthday, their life, their face, their whatever. YOU DO NOT COMMEMORATE THE BAD TIMES. It’s a very subtle point, and I know you get it.

I hope they rebuild the WTC exactly the way it was for exactly that reason. Nina

Response:

Don’t commemorate Tuesday.  If you lost someone, commemorate their birthday, their life, their face, their whatever. YOU DO NOT COMMEMORATE THE BAD TIMES. It’s a very subtle point, and I know you get it. I hope they rebuild the WTC exactly the way it was for exactly that reason. Nina

I say add at least one floor more than the original. Kavin

Response:

lish wrote in a bad tattoo, you mean?

if you died (and i don’t wish it!) i’d honor you in kanji. that would be a bad tattoo ~ rebekah lishtrxbitch "This is no time to let your silver lining get all cloudy" ~ Valerie Irons, VIP "Anyone who would pull the intellectual snobbery bit on you isn’t worth your time anyway." ~ Mara, 31-JUL-2001 http://committed.to/tattoo

Response:

r lish wrote in a bad tattoo, you mean?

r if you died (and i don’t wish it!) i’d honor you in kanji. r that would be a bad tattoo         so what you’re saying is you’re a total hypocrite.         you know i wouldn’t want to be remembered that way, & yet just yesterday you proclaimed, "honor their memory by commemorating them the way THEY would want to be remembered."         i personally would want to be remembered by people biting open cyanide capsules. & i’d want YOU to remember me the MOST, bekkkah.         & btw, you’re covered in bad tattoos. that hand-with-the-butterfly thing? i can’t imagine why ANYONE would get a piece like that & then WILLINGLY go BACK to the ‘artist’. lish 35.1% / 28

Response:

lish wrote i’d honor you in kanji. r that would be a bad tattoo    so what you’re saying is you’re a total hypocrite.

oh yeah, like i’d REALLY get a tattoo in your honor.  you’re slipping. & btw, you’re covered in bad tattoos. that hand-with-the-butterfly thing? i can’t imagine why ANYONE would get a piece like that & then WILLINGLY go BACK to the ‘artist’.

i’m looking for someone to cover my entire back. the hand/butterfly looks EXACTLY like the print from which it was taken. it’s one of my favorites.  that’s why i chose that print… it’s one of my favorites.  even though it made the artist nuts that he couldn’t make changes. smo0o0o00oxies, rebekah lishtrxbitch "This is no time to let your silver lining get all cloudy" ~ Valerie Irons, VIP "Anyone who would pull the intellectual snobbery bit on you isn’t worth your time anyway." ~ Mara, 31-JUL-2001 http://committed.to/tattoo

Response:

I am wondering if anyone has any plans to get a remembrance tattoo.

Are you sure you have any room left after getting your #3 Dale what’shisname? memorial tattoo?  Won’t it clash with your taz piece? Why not donate the money you were going to spend on such a stupid idea to the agencies that are _helping_ the victims? Annie

Response:

I am wondering if anyone has any plans to get a remembrance tattoo. Are you sure you have any room left after getting your #3 Dale what’shisname? memorial tattoo?  Won’t it clash with your taz piece? Why not donate the money you were going to spend on such a stupid idea to the agencies that are _helping_ the victims?

wow. how in the *hell* did you manage to take  the time from alt.sex.glory-holes to respond to this? furthermore, i don’t really expect people offering blowjobs on usenet to try and tell anyone their actions are stupid, or insinuate their ideas are tacky, mundane or trite. perhaps instead of spending time on rab, you should focus your efforts on buying a camera with auto-record.  your mandible will thank you, and so will rab. that is all. ~christyn. You’ll have to blow a puppy in hell for THAT little outburst. ~c.s.

Response:

wow. how in the *hell* did you manage to take  the time from alt.sex.glory-holes to respond to this?

It was hard to do but I can type with my mouth full and one hand if needed. Yeah, I did those posts to alt.sex.gloryholes.  It’s a great way to screen people who share my fetish. Hmmm…how about the fact that you had to be a member of that newsgroup to see them, huh?   And yes, I admit that its my after hours kink.  Yep.  My personal choice of fun is gloryholing.  And I like to take pictures and make videos.  I used to have a website selling them but it got to be too much of a hassle.   And I still stand behind my statement.  The money spent on a remembrance tattoo is better spent donating to the people who it can help right now.  I doubt there is going to be a huge shortage of tattooing supplies or tattooists so why not wait until the needs of the victims have been met before satisfying your urge to get some attention by getting that remembrance tattoo? Annie Clark Oh and I must be in hell…you’re here.  Do you have that puppy?

Response:

It was hard to do but I can type with my mouth full and one hand if needed. Yeah, I did those posts to alt.sex.gloryholes.  It’s a great way to screen people who share my fetish. Hmmm…how about the fact that you had to be a member of that newsgroup to see them, huh?  

http://groups.google.com  Amazing, huh? <snip — sarahmonster change 0 to o to reply http://iam.bmezine.com/?sarahmonster

Response:

Yeah, I did those posts to alt.sex.gloryholes.  It’s a great way to screen people who share my fetish. Hmmm…how about the fact that you had to be a member of that newsgroup to see them, huh?  

gosh no. i’m psychic…..really. And yes, I admit that its my after hours kink.  Yep.  My personal choice of fun is gloryholing.  And I like to take pictures and make videos.  I used to have a website selling them but it got to be too much of a hassle.  

i don’t care if your idea of a good time is stuffing a radish up each nostril, covering your face in crunchy peanut butter, and doing the hokey pokey with an albacore tuna halfway out your ass. And I still stand behind my statement.  The money spent on a remembrance tattoo is better spent donating to the people who it can help right now.  I doubt there is going to be a huge shortage of tattooing supplies or tattooists so why not wait until the needs of the victims have been met before satisfying your urge to get some attention by getting that remembrance tattoo?

you know what really rocks? that you feel better about admitting to sucking the cocks of strangers than you do admitting you weren’t really trying to be helpful in the first place. wow. that is all, ~christyn. Oh and I must be in hell…you’re here.  Do you have that puppy?

(a)hungry dog likes cheese, not meat of retard. ~fuzzy pink satan ***yank ME to reply***

Response:

ou know what really rocks? that you feel better about admitting to sucking the cocks of strangers than you do admitting you weren’t really trying to be helpful in the first place.

No, I was doing what others did about that thread and replied.  It does seem silly to spend money on a tattoo about something that was a huge tragedy when financial help is needed by many agencies working to heal the pain of the victims.   You decided to make my opinion a reason to post something about my personal life that has nothing to do with my reply at all. You didn’t take the time to dig up anything about anyone else who replied negatively.   It’s the fact that you took time to look me up through google that’s sort of pathetic.   And cool…I didn’t realize there was such a place to find people’s past posts. But then I couldn’t have understood it in the first place unless someone explained it real slow using very small words and only if they repeated it over and over. It got you more attention which is what the whole thing was about in the first place. You’ll deny that but then that too will give you yet another reason to post which will make sure you get more attention. I don’t withdrawl my statement but I concede. Hurry up and get that remembrance tattoo before someone else you know does and steals your spotlight.  Make sure you give blood first. Oh and here, sob sob…since you have broken me down so much, I’ll just hang my head in shame and tell all the people that oh, you are just soooo right and I am just sooo wrong. Oh, I am such a baad person who thanks to your wisdom has seen the error of her ways. I was soooo wrong to think that what happened in New York and around the nation was not all about you. wow.  You actually thought that innocent little puppies would go to hell.   ladies and gentlemen…your winner…snitty twit….game set match. Annie’s going to such some cock now…I’ll be sure to donate the proceeds to the relief effort.

Response:

<snip self satisfying drivel I don’t dislike you because you suck dick, and I don’t dislike you because you have fetishes, and I don’t dislike you because you disagree with one of my friends. I dislike you because you are a smarmy git who lacks the intelligence and wit to tell anyone off properly. I have no respect for that. You may go away now. Jess — "Didn’t you all hear? Im taking all that bodymod crap off the spc site and changing the focus to pictures and info on those Walter Keene big eyed puppy paintings. Sorry for the misunderstanding." – shawn.SPC, aka shawn.bigeye puppy LadyJ is available at www.ladyj.net and fine stores everywhere.

Response:

No, I was doing what others did about that thread and replied.  

no, you mockingly compared memorializing a monumental catastrophe with having a taz tattoo. and inferred remembering the death of a popular race car driver in the same way was stupid. *that* is what i took offense at. if you don’t recall what you said in your first post: Are you sure you have any room left after getting your #3 Dale what’shisname? memorial tattoo?  Won’t it clash with your taz piece? Why not donate the money you were going to spend on such a stupid idea to the agencies that are _helping_ the victims?

people choose to tattoo themselves with various symbols for a variety of reasons. i am not of the opinion that a tattoo of a favorite flower is any less important than a tattoo of the virgin mary, the american flag, or a monkey with "aloha" written on his ass.  unless i’ve missed something from your words, you seem to believe the original idea was "stupid." i’m curious now as to what work you have on your body that you deem to be so much more significant in meaning. i can almost guarrentee someone on rab (or elsewhere) would find that idea really fucking dumb. also, your statement seems to infer the original poster wasn’t a victim. why do you think people who aren’t in new york, washington dc, or pennsylvania aren’t victims? It does seem silly to spend money on a tattoo about something that was a huge tragedy when financial help is needed by many agencies working to heal the pain of the victims.  

if you had simply stated "perhaps a better way to remember the memory of those who were injured and died is to donate whatever you can (blood, money, time) to organizations which will help in the reparation and rebuilding of those affected" i would not have responded at all.  you are getting negative reaction from me based on negative statements from you. You decided to make my opinion a reason to post something about my personal life that has nothing to do with my reply at all. You didn’t take the time to dig up anything about anyone else who replied negatively.  

you were the only person that i felt belittled the original poster. also, once you post something on usenet, it really isn’t part of your personal life anymore. it is a matter of easily obtainable record. It’s the fact that you took time to look me up through google that’s sort of pathetic.  

you know, if i’m not familiar with anyone to which i am responding, i take a few moments to groups.goggle any prior posts. sometimes i find they just have an odd sense of humor, sometimes i determine it’s really a troll, and other times i find out they have some ‘kinky’ (your word, not mine) sexual practice. call me crazy, but people who have practices similar to your own shouldn’t take the time to try and belittle other people for having an unusual idea. it’s almost a "glass house" sort of thing. You’ll deny that but then that too will give you yet another reason to post which will make sure you get more attention.

i can hardly be seen as an attention seeking member of rab. Hurry up and get that remembrance tattoo before someone else you know does and steals your spotlight.  Make sure you give blood first.

i wasn’t the one who wanted the tattoo in the first place.  keep up. Oh and here, sob sob…since you have broken me down so much, I’ll just hang my head in shame and tell all the people that oh, you are just soooo right and I am just sooo wrong.

this isn’t about me being right, it’s about you being wrong. Oh, I am such a baad person who thanks to your wisdom has seen the error of her ways. I was soooo wrong to think that what happened in New York and around the nation was not all about you.

what the hell are you talking about? wow.  You actually thought that innocent little puppies would go to hell.  

you *do* know what a .sig file is, don’t you? Annie’s going to such some cock now…I’ll be sure to donate the proceeds to the relief effort.

i can’t imagine the nation’s sperm banks are in need of additional donations from this past week’s events, but whatever. i’d probably tell you to Eat a Bowl of Dick ™, but somehow it doesn’t seem  appropriate. ~christyn. *** yank ME to reply ***

Response:

Nope…I’ll NEVER go away now…I’ll just change screen names and post more opinions and more and more and more… haaa haaa…. Annie Carnkypoptart is no more…watch for my new one and my soon to be "post of the day!" I will troll forever….

Response:

Nope…I’ll NEVER go away now…I’ll just change screen names and post more opinions and more and more and more… haaa haaa…. Annie Carnkypoptart is no more…watch for my new one and my soon to be "post of the day!" I will troll forever….

But, won’t that take time away from your dick sucking? *shrug* It’s been dead around here anyway. Jess — "The writing of more than 75 poems in any fiscal year should be punishable by a fine of $500." – Ed Sanders LadyJ is available at www.ladyj.net and fine stores everywhere.

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L But, won’t that take time away from your dick sucking?         done properly, no. lish 35.1% / 28

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isp i can almost guarrentee someone on rab (or elsewhere) would find that isp idea really fucking dumb.         go ahead & guarantee it, c. i’ve got your back. HEHE lish 35.1% / 28

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Nope…I’ll NEVER go away now…I’ll just change screen names and post more opinions and more and more and more… haaa haaa…. Annie Carnkypoptart is no more…watch for my new one and my soon to be "post of the day!" I will troll forever….

OK, who is the idiot doctor who cloned David? Nina — C’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot.                             Louis Pasteur http://www.chaotropic.net

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Nope…I’ll NEVER go away now…I’ll just change screen names and post more opinions and more and more and more…

*Well, it’s been done before, have fun waisting -your- time Corine

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Question:

I can’t stand that motherfucker.  Something about his is so fucking annoying to me that I get angry whenever I see him…especially if I get to listen to him talk.  I’m mad while I’m posting this just because I’m thinking about the pig. When he was on Dennis Miller talking about what it was like to get a Grammy, my god, I just about lost it.  Crystal says there’s something wrong with me, but I doubt it…come on, someone else has to feel the same??

Response:

…come on, someone else has to feel the same??

 i knew this kid with a "Kurt Kobain 1967-1994" tattoo, and he fucking hated dave grohl, the foo fighters, and just about every other band that came around after 1992. i saw him for the first time in a long time 4 months ago, and he was wearing dickies and a soulfly bowling shirt. he told me he was really into radiohead and was in a band that sounded like slipknot meets tool. he was covered in bad tattoos and i asked to see the kurt memorial one and he laughed and said he had it covered up 2 years ago. it was this big gross tribal on his upper arm and where kurts head had been was solid black and you could still make out the outline. then, just below where kurts head had been was the tool wrench thing symbol with all this dumb tribal around it. — Extreme breakdown are my specialty.

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Question:

i  have gotten tattooed in every city i have ever lived in.  recently i decided that i would like to have tats from the cities i visit, a kind of a travelogue.  i am devoting my left leg to this theme.  i envision it eventually looking like the old suitcases you sometimes see, with stickers on it from every place that the owner has traveled. i will be in phoenix from october 17-24, and would like to begin this piece there.  i intend to leave it up to the artist i decide on in each city to design the ’sticker’ for his/her city.  so, does anyone have any recommendations for artists in phoenix?  or if there are any phoenix area artists reading this, would you be interested in drawing me a ’sticker’ and e-mailing me so that i can make my decision and book an appointment before i get there? also planning trips in the fairly near future to cleveland, st. louis, niagra falls and possibly new orleans.  anyone there interested in sending their ideas?  just moved back to boston 2 months ago, and since tating is (finally) legal in ma i’d sure like to get a ’sticker’ from my hometown.  ok, nough said. demonica — she’s back! she’s got the personality of darth vader and the mentality of a 6th grader

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http://www.modernprimitives.com/ *** Am I the only one who thinks this is fucked up?

Ummmm, in what way is it fucked up?  I mean, other then the hideously ugly interface and bad tattoos….???

Response:

http://www.channel1.com/users/HAMISBADJUDYREMOVEskaterat/masstattoo.html

You made me look at your site and I saw http://www.channel1.com/users/skaterat/picts/voodoo_bottles.jpg again and now I’m feeling really bad. I just wanted to see if I could find anything NEAT. Sara — saram AT wam.umd.edu, make my address kosher to reply http://www.waxpaper.net, RANA-64 Who knew? Canadia has Hubba Bubba!    

Response:

Helo, Demonica, …  just moved back to boston 2 months ago, and since tating is (finally) legal in ma i’d sure like to get a ’sticker’ from my hometown. …

Try Jennifer Clinch at Modern Primitives in Providence, just an hour down the road from your new home. http://www.modernprimitives.com/ Harmon

Response:

ideas?  just moved back to boston 2 months ago, and since tating is (finally) legal in ma i’d sure like to get a ’sticker’ from my hometown.  ok, nough said.

It is??? Since when?     Susan     http://scamptattoo.com

Response:

http://www.modernprimitives.com/

*** Am I the only one who thinks this is fucked up? k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r w w w . n o o t r o p e . n e t / m o d e r n a m e r i c a n . c o m / — e n d  t r a n s m i s s i o n —

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too) http://www.modernprimitives.com/ *** Am I the only one who thinks this is fucked up?

Actually, I laughed. I’m sorry. —Angie a.k.a. D-Strss

Response:

ideas?  just moved back to boston 2 months ago, and since tating is (finally) legal in ma i’d sure like to get a ’sticker’ from my hometown.  ok, nough said. It is??? Since when?

Don’t worry Susan.  It isn’t yet … http://www.channel1.com/users/HAMISBADJUDYREMOVEskaterat/masstattoo.html — http://www.REMOVEME.channel1.com/users/skaterat/killfile.html

Response:

You made me look at your site and I saw http://www.channel1.com/users/ADDEDNOTBYSARAHMskaterat/picts/voodoo_b… again and now I’m feeling really bad.

Creepy, eh? I just wanted to see if I could find anything NEAT.

I keep all the really NEAT stuff hidden. — http://www.REMOVEME.channel1.com/users/skaterat/killfile.html

Response:

http://www.modernprimitives.com/ *** Am I the only one who thinks this is fucked up? Ummmm, in what way is it fucked up?  I mean, other then the hideously ugly interface and bad tattoos….???

No offense Tabaqui, but could you please attribute the post you are quoting from ( like I have above ) so we all know who is saying what. Muchas gracias Mimp

Response:

Don’t worry Susan.  It isn’t yet …

I didn’t think so – I can occasionally be oblivious, but I think it might have been mentioned in newspapers or such. Somehow, I think the troop up at Jim’s Tattoos might have been talking about it if it had, too. Instead, they were all up-in-arms because Jim asked them to sign a paper saying they were independents renting space and paying their own taxes (not unreasonable since they are and they should be.) — Susan http://scamptattoo.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.channel1.com/users/HAMISBADJUDYREMOVEskaterat/masstattoo.html — http://www.REMOVEME.channel1.com/users/skaterat/killfile.html

Response:

Creepy, eh?

If I ever visit you, those will go away. You will put them in a box in a closet. I keep all the really NEAT stuff hidden.

*pout* Sara — saram AT wam.umd.edu, make my address kosher to reply http://www.waxpaper.net, RANA-64 Who knew? Canadia has Hubba Bubba!    

Response:

Creepy, eh? If I ever visit you, those will go away. You will put them in a box in a closet.

You have nothing to fear from the bloody, evil, babydoll heads in a jar.   Fortunately, they are all at my sister’s house.  There are scary voodoo dolls there too. I keep all the really NEAT stuff hidden. *pout*

ptptptptptptptpt — http://www.REMOVEME.channel1.com/users/skaterat/killfile.html

Response:

http://www.modernprimitives.com/ *** Am I the only one who thinks this is fucked up? Ummmm, in what way is it fucked up?  I mean, other then the hideously ugly interface and bad tattoos….???

*** If you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand. k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r w w w . n o o t r o p e . n e t / m o d e r n a m e r i c a n . c o m / — e n d  t r a n s m i s s i o n —

Response:

http://www.modernprimitives.com/ *** Am I the only one who thinks this is fucked up? Ummmm, in what way is it fucked up?  I mean, other then the hideously ugly interface and bad tattoos….??? *** If you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand.

Yes, but i would *LIKE* to understand, don’tcherknow…. BUT if you you prefer i don’t, well, i suppose i’ll live through it. TQ

Response:

You have nothing to fear from the bloody, evil, babydoll heads in a jar.   Fortunately, they are all at my sister’s house.  There are scary voodoo dolls there too.

I won’t ever be at your sister’s house. I am relieved. ptptptptptptptpt

Need some oil for your engine? Sara — saram AT wam.umd.edu, make my address kosher to reply http://www.waxpaper.net, RANA-64 Who knew? Canadia has Hubba Bubba!    

Response:

Try Jennifer Clinch at Modern Primitives in Providence, just an hour down the road from your new home.

that’s new, old home.  i may very well go see her, however that would have to be my providence ’sticker’, not my boston ’sticker’. geez, get with the program demonica — she’s back! she’s got the personality of darth vader and the mentality of a 6th grader

Response:

It is??? Since when?

since like a month ago.  at least that’s what my piercer told me, and i’d certainly think he’d be up to date. demonica — she’s back! she’s got the personality of darth vader and the mentality of a 6th grader

Response:

Question:

hey all,         i’m 16 in a few short days (16 to be exact)…plus i’m almost out of school. anyways-i really really want an eyebrow piercing…i already pierced my tongue looong time ago (not recommended *ha*). my mom said okay already (yea),my dad—-ummm—i’m too chicken to ask right now(nay). i need some tactics to get him to let me pierce it next month for a birthday present…*ha*.       he still doesn’t know about my other piercings in my ear because of my hair. he WILL see the eyebrow piercing of course.   any suggestions or tactics would be ever-so-wonderful.                      sincerely,                               jenny ps-thank God its legal here w/an adult…is it everywhere?    just checkin the facts.

Response:

hey all,         i’m 16 in a few short days (16 to be exact)…plus i’m almost out of school. anyways-i really really want an eyebrow piercing…i already pierced my tongue looong time ago (not recommended *ha*). my mom said okay already (yea),my dad—-ummm—i’m too chicken to ask right now(nay). i need some tactics to get him to let me pierce it next month for a birthday present…*ha*.   he still doesn’t know about my other piercings in my ear because of my hair. he WILL see the eyebrow piercing of course.   any suggestions or tactics would be ever-so-wonderful.

I don’t have any suggestions, really. If you’ve proven yourself to be a strong/responsible type of person you might just ask him? And make sure you can counter-act any reservations he might have. For instance, piercings can always be removed at a later stage in your life. ps-thank God its legal here w/an adult…is it everywhere?    just checkin the facts.

It’s legal here? Where is HERE? This is the WorldWideWeb. Here in Sweden, anything except genital piercings are OK at 16 as long as you have parental permission. But of course, there are always hacks who’ll pierce 13-year olds in my country as well as other countries. Ulf — "I shop, therefore I am." To mail me, remove delete.this.

Response:

Let’s see, I got my dad to let me get my tattoo after a bet, he bet me I couldn’t get through a carnival maze under a minute. I did so he let me get the tattoo I had wanted for forever…Try that or try writing a persuasive essay =] If all that fails then try kissing up, pointing out anything responsible you’ve done recently, and tell him he’d be the coolest dad on the block if he took you to get your eyebrow pieced. Trow in sumthin like… "c’mon dad..you could get a tattoo or sumthin, it’ll be a bonding expeience" I hoped that helped =] gloriani

Response:

Let’s see, I got my dad to let me get my tattoo after a bet, he bet me I couldn’t get through a carnival maze under a minute. I did so he let me get the tattoo I had wanted for forever…Try that or try writing a persuasive essay =]

I wrote an essay… w/ footnotes and everything… it worked, in combination with other things… melou The intelligence on this planet is constant; the population is increasing. To email remove squidpickles

Response:

   You mean in Sweden they’ll do nipples at 16? That suprises me, that’s all.     – DQ

Response:

(CRAZEEGLU) writes: Let’s see, I got my dad to let me get my tattoo after a bet, he bet me I couldn’t get through a carnival maze under a minute. I did so he let me get the tattoo I had wanted for forever…Try that or try writing a persuasive essay =] If all that fails then try kissing up, pointing out anything responsible you’ve done recently, and tell him he’d be the coolest dad on the block if he took you to get your eyebrow pieced. Trow in sumthin like… "c’mon dad..you could get a tattoo or sumthin, it’ll be a bonding expeience" I hoped that helped =] gloriani

Now that’s what I call solid parenting skills, was that maze thing in the handbook or what. — Chumley The Happy Clown "Thanks for the memories" —- Bob Hope

Response:

(CrOoKiLyN) writes: hey all,        i’m 16 in a few short days (16 to be exact)…plus i’m almost out of school. anyways-i really really want an eyebrow piercing…i already pierced my tongue looong time ago (not recommended *ha*). my mom said okay already (yea),my dad—-ummm—i’m too chicken to ask right now(nay). i need some tactics to get him to let me pierce it next month for a birthday present…*ha*.      he still doesn’t know about my other piercings in my ear because of my hair. he WILL see the eyebrow piercing of course.  any suggestions or tactics would be ever-so-wonderful.

The best tactic is to prove that your responsible and deserving by waiting till your legal all by yourself. 2 years and 16 days is a pretty short wait in the greater scheme of things, a mere drop in the bucket of time itself. — Chumley The Happy Clown "Thanks for the memories" —- Bob Hope

Response:

best tactic is to prove that your responsible and deserving by waiting till your legal all by yourself.

This is exactly the tactic I was thinking of, too.  It seems that kids often are unwilling to wait until they are old enough.  When my parents finally saw my first tattoo, my mother commented on how much she appreciated that I had waited until I was an adult, supporting myself, and on my own.  To her, that showed responsibility.  I would do the same with my kids.  Again, 2 years really isn’t that long to wait.  

Response:

thank you alll for all your suggestions-but i can’t wait until i’m 18…carpe diem…never know how long i’ll be here-might as well do it now better get moving on that essay (thanx glorani)                                am i a hick? JeNnYeNyDoTs

Response:

I like the bet idea.  Why don’t you try this wager.  Bet your dad (hell, throw your mom in this too) that you can wait 2 years to get your eyebrow done. — Extract The Essence Santi

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see, I got my dad to let me get my tattoo after a bet, he bet me I couldn’t get through a carnival maze under a minute. I did so he let me get the tattoo I had wanted for forever…Try that or try writing a persuasive essay =] If all that fails then try kissing up, pointing out anything responsible you’ve done recently, and tell him he’d be the coolest dad on the block if he took you to get your eyebrow pieced. Trow in sumthin like… "c’mon dad..you could get a tattoo or sumthin, it’ll be a bonding expeience" I hoped that helped =] gloriani

Response:

That’s all good..(if you’re the parent) gloriani

Response:

Now that’s what I call solid parenting skills, was that maze thing in the handbook or what.

Yea it was, in chapter 7, it’s called What to do when you’re teenager wants a tattoo. =] gloriani

Response:

thank you alll for all your suggestions-but i can’t wait until i’m 18…carpe diem…never know how long i’ll be here-might as well do it now

I can’t say that i am entirely saddened that it is illegal in this state (WA) for anyone under 18 to be tattooed, regardless of parental consent. This of course, is only noted by reputable artists, and not by your friend <insert name here who will do a tattoo for you with India Ink and a sewing needle on his kitchen table while you guys are all drunk at a party at his house. ; iniquity

Response:

I like the bet idea.  Why don’t you try this wager.  Bet your dad (hell, throw your mom in this too) that you can wait 2 years to get your eyebrow done.

ha, that’s funny…

Response:

It’s also illegal for you to get a tattoo here in California under 18 regardless of your parents consent. I got my tattoo in Hawaii with my dad where all you need is a parent, but don’t ya think that maybe if it weren’t illegal to get tattoos in places like Cali and Washington people would get them done professionally and not by someone not trained?? Just a thought, and I can also see where your coming from. =) gloriani

Response:

but don’t ya think that maybe if it weren’t illegal to get tattoos in places like Cali and Washington people would get them done professionally and not by someone not trained??

I honestly think that if tattoos were legal for people under 18 there would be alot more kids getting tattoos they did not think long enough (or even at all) about etc… I got a tattoo underage witha fake id, but the legal aspect prevents most from attempting. Maybe some botched tattoos would be avoided by people not going to hacks but overall I think the law serves a good purpose. melou, who simultaneously curses and appreciates laws frequently The intelligence on this planet is constant; the population is increasing. To email remove squidpickles

Response:

but don’t ya think that maybe if it weren’t illegal to get tattoos in places like Cali and Washington people would get them done professionally and not by someone not trained??

I think ppl are going to get them however they are going to get them, regardless of what laws are in place. If you are a person who wants a professional tattoo, then that is what you will get, even if you have to wait a year or something until you are 18, or save up some money to afford it. If you are an impatient sort of person or someone who doesn’t really care if the tattoo is professionally done or thinks that price is the prime factor in selecting an artist, then you will probably go to a scratcher. I think this operates independently of what laws are currently on the books and depends much more on a personal ideal of a tattoo/tattoo experience. But… I’m not a sociologist, so these are just my theories! iniquity

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   You mean in Sweden they’ll do nipples at 16? That suprises me, that’s all.     – DQ

I honestly don’t know if they’ll do nipples at 16 here in Sweden. Never crossed my mind, I do know that genitals are off limits. Nipples are sort of intimate, but no big deal after all. Ulf — "I shop, therefore I am." To mail me, remove delete.this.

Response:

In Massachusetts, where I live, tatooing is illegal, and so people just go to the first place they find in New Hampshire, right next to the border, which is often a really poor establishment, and unclean. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – but don’t ya think that maybe if it weren’t illegal to get tattoos in places like Cali and Washington people would get them done professionally and not by someone not trained?? I think ppl are going to get them however they are going to get them, regardless of what laws are in place. If you are a person who wants a professional tattoo, then that is what you will get, even if you have to wait a year or something until you are 18, or save up some money to afford it. If you are an impatient sort of person or someone who doesn’t really care if the tattoo is professionally done or thinks that price is the prime factor in selecting an artist, then you will probably go to a scratcher. I think this operates independently of what laws are currently on the books and depends much more on a personal ideal of a tattoo/tattoo experience. But… I’m not a sociologist, so these are just my theories!

– Chace http://home.earthlink.net/~themailman/ My School: http://www.andover.edu "One is not born a woman, one becomes one." -Simone deBeauvoir

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Well, I live in MA, too and actually NH is pretty well regulated. I’ve not seen any unclean NH shops, though I will grant you I haven’t gone in them all.  There might have been a time when these places might have not asked for an ID, but I don’t think you’ll find many now. Of course, there are always "tattoo parties" that go on in MA every weekend. I’ve seen plenty of really bad tattoos on underage kids from those. — Susan http://people.ne.mediaone.net/scamp3/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In Massachusetts, where I live, tatooing is illegal, and so people just go to the first place they find in New Hampshire, right next to the border, which is often a really poor establishment, and unclean. but don’t ya think that maybe if it weren’t illegal to get tattoos in places like Cali and Washington people would get them done professionally and not by someone not trained?? I think ppl are going to get them however they are going to get them, regardless of what laws are in place. If you are a person who wants a professional tattoo, then that is what you will get, even if you have to wait a year or something until you are 18, or save up some money to afford it. If you are an impatient sort of person or someone who doesn’t really care if the tattoo is professionally done or thinks that price is the prime factor in selecting an artist, then you will probably go to a scratcher. I think this operates independently of what laws are currently on the books and depends much more on a personal ideal of a tattoo/tattoo experience. But… I’m not a sociologist, so these are just my theories! — Chace http://home.earthlink.net/~themailman/ My School: http://www.andover.edu "One is not born a woman, one becomes one." -Simone deBeauvoir

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In Massachusetts, where I live, tatooing is illegal, and so people just go to the first place they find in New Hampshire, right next to the border, which is often a really poor establishment, and unclean.

that’s very true.  i used to live in MA.  i did that.  luckily the first place (which was very poor) didn’t work out and the second place i went to ended up being really cool.  i was very stupid, and very lucky.  :)   amY, who’s much pickier about who gets to stick needles in her now — "You mean… ‘dickwad’?" "Yes, but ‘come’ can also be used as a verb." – Happiness

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actually-i don’t know the law here in ohio…but i know alot of those lil they’re younger than me i don’t think they crossed the border to get em hmmm jenny ps-i am thinking of waiting (yeeeaaaaahhhh) school-defiant me {ha}) but i’ll see i’m already too damn different (y’all (oops) should see me)already-i just might wait i’ll keep y’all (ok-i’m from the south-really!)posted <3 jenny (again)

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Question:

Awhile back I posted a message looking for alligator tattoo pix’s I got a few and got my gator tattoo a week ago. If you want to see it and make some coments go to: http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/tattoo.htm -john Farmer Brown’s Garden Path Square Foot Gardening http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/index.html

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FB Awhile back I posted a message looking for alligator tattoo pix’s I FB got a few and got my gator tattoo a week ago. If you want to see it FB and make some coments go to:         oh, i’d love to make some comments about this one.         but i won’t, because i don’t have that kind of time.         i do wonder, though, what’s the measurement on it? two inches long? lish 28.6% / 31

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Awhile back I posted a message looking for alligator tattoo pix’s I got a few and got my gator tattoo a week ago. If you want to see it and make some coments go to: http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/tattoo.htm

Is that a palm tree going up the chicken’s butt? iniquity

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Wow. Is that the actual drawing you brought in, or did your artist improvise? Where did you go for the work? — Susan (forever being given more reason to be  grateful that her artist is both sane and talented) http://people.ne.mediaone.net/scamp3/index.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Awhile back I posted a message looking for alligator tattoo pix’s I got a few and got my gator tattoo a week ago. If you want to see it and make some coments go to: http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/tattoo.htm -john Farmer Brown’s Garden Path Square Foot Gardening http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/index.html

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Wow!  That has got to be one of the ugliest and absolutely worst executed tattoos I have ever seen in my entire life. The FAQ has some excellent advice on coverups and laser tattoo removal. Well, you asked for comments. Geoffrey

: Awhile back I posted a message looking for alligator tattoo pix’s I : got a few and got my gator tattoo a week ago. If you want to see it : and make some coments go to: : http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/tattoo.htm : -john : Farmer Brown’s Garden Path : Square Foot Gardening : http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/index.html :

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Awhile back I posted a message looking for alligator tattoo pix’s I got a few and got my gator tattoo a week ago. If you want to see it and make some coments go to: http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/tattoo.htm Is that a palm tree going up the chicken’s butt? iniquity

And where on gods green earth is all that HAIR coming from? abbie

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Well, well… You certainly are a merciless bunch. =) Ulf — "I shop, therefore I am." To mail me, remove delete.this.

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abbie said: And where on gods green earth is all that HAIR coming from?

Maybe he should have plucked the damn chicken.. Or he needs IGEA. But I’m not pitching in. Only for Lish will I. Lauren

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Well, well… You certainly are a merciless bunch. =)

Did you look at it though, I mean no one said anything that wasn’t true. http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/tattoo.htm In case ya missed it. — Chumley The Happy Clown "Thanks for the memories" —- Bob Hope

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Did you look at it though, I mean no one said anything that wasn’t true.

Well maybe he wanted it to look like a five year old drew it. Eli — | NoRtHtRoN a.k.a. Eli Katzenmeyer                           | | Proud member of Andy Richter’s church of the Divine Ass… | | Spank the ".monkey" to send me e-mail.                   |

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Did you look at it though, I mean no one said anything that wasn’t true. Well maybe he wanted it to look like a five year old drew it.

HEY< don’t insult 5 year olds  like that someone said that i wasn’t fit to eat with pigs, my friend replied that the pigs would be happy to have me. Ray

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that the pigs would be happy to have me.

*That would be BEFORE they end up in the stew together with the things your scrap off the road, eh Ray?  :) I love your (cooking) style <g corine The French are sawed-off sissies who eat snails and slugs and cheese that smells like people’s feet.Utter cowards who force their children to drink wine,they gibber like baboons even when you try to speak to them in their own wimpy language. PJ’Rourke

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Well, well… You certainly are a merciless bunch. =) Did you look at it though, I mean no one said anything that wasn’t true.

I looked at it. To put it delicately, I wouldn’t want it. Ulf — "I shop, therefore I am." To mail me, remove delete.this.

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Did you look at it though, I mean no one said anything that wasn’t true. I looked at it. To put it delicately, I wouldn’t want it. Ulf

LOL, I needed that today, thanks. — Chumley The Happy Clown "Thanks for the memories" —- Bob Hope

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Well, well… You certainly are a merciless bunch. =) Did you look at it though, I mean no one said anything that wasn’t true. http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/tattoo.htm In case ya missed it.

  i feel bad for this guy. i couldn’t tell, though, from his original post if he was actually proud of that tattoo or not.

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  i feel bad for this guy. i couldn’t tell, though, from his original post if he was actually proud of that tattoo or not.

Actually, those of us with multiple tattoos and some coverage always have that ‘first one’. I used to be VERY proud of mine, and now I think its the most butt-awful thing on my body. But ill never get it covered up.  It was my first one, and for that it needs at least a small dollop of respect… abbie — "Push out the jive, bring in the love" –Montgomery Burns

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hmmm… i guess i’m being a wimpy girl on this issue, but i sort of disagree. i do believe that people are often praised too much, but the issues differ. i think that people should have told this man not to get an alligator tattoo when he first posted, if they felt this way.  or maybe told him "hey, check out this artist" or "a tribal alligator would look fucking awesome".  or even "alligator tattoos are ugly, don’t get one" or even if you completely hated the tattoo and wanted to say so, you could say it in a nicer way than:           i couldn’t tell if he was actually proud of that tattoo or not.         Well maybe he wanted it to look like a five year old drew it.         HEY< don’t insult 5 year olds  like that         Maybe he should have plucked the damn chicken..         Wow!  That has got to be one of the ugliest and absolutely worst executed                 tattoos I have ever seen in my entire life. my guess is that maybe you all are ok people, ( this doesn’t make me think any less of you ), and just aren’t thinking that you’re saying this to a person with a permanent piece of work on their arm that means a lot to them personally.  one of the dangers of the internet… while i am certainly not very pc or quiet or afraid of speaking my mind, i would not be very happy if someone said that to me, nor would any of you. **my biggest issue is that, if the same comments were said to a regular poster, the offender would probably get flamed to hell.** instead, i prefer the response that someone else gave:         I looked at it. To put it delicately, I wouldn’t want it. or what happened to "i really don’t like it but hey, to each his own?" just because this is the internet doesn’t mean you all have to be fucking dicks to everyone. if you want to flame me, fine, i just want you all to think what you would do if everyone said the same kind of shit about you.

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that’s a good point. guess i’m just a softie  :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If he -is- proud of it, all the bashing in the world will not affect him.

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<SNIP :  i feel bad for this guy. i couldn’t tell, though, from his original post : if he was actually proud of that tattoo or not. : : : Allright, time for me to rant a little bit, this one’s been a long time coming. : : Why the hell is it that as long as we are nice and polite and patting each : other on the back everything is fine. But if something that is negative is : called out, it becomes an issue. I agree with you.  There is no need for cruelty but the guy asked for comments and not compliments. One of the most fundamental aspects of the art process is people saying how they react to the artwork. This guy has options which range from ignoring us to getting the address of a good laser guy. Geoffrey

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   i feel bad for this guy. i couldn’t tell, though, from his original post if he was actually proud of that tattoo or not. Actually, those of us with multiple tattoos and some coverage always have that ‘first one’. I used to be VERY proud of mine, and now I think its the most butt-awful thing on my body. But ill never get it covered up.  It was my first one, and for that it needs at least a small dollop of respect… abbie — thats a good point. my first one is a peace sign above my right ankle, and its not that good. its ok, but well, not that good but i was under the impression that he had others, and this was just his latest. maybe i misunderstood it, though.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Well, well… You certainly are a merciless bunch. =) Did you look at it though, I mean no one said anything that wasn’t true. http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/tattoo.htm In case ya missed it.  i feel bad for this guy. i couldn’t tell, though, from his original post if he was actually proud of that tattoo or not. Allright, time for me to rant a little bit, this one’s been a long time coming. Why the hell is it that as long as we are nice and polite and patting each other on the back everything is fine. But if something that is negative is called out, it becomes an issue. I personally take issue with what I often see as empty support. I try to live as honest as possible, and if that means calling someone an idiot to their face so be it, that’s what I think, the same goes for bad art, piercings, clothes, and hairstyles. When I say that I like something it is deeply and honestly true, and I don’t beat around the bush on it, with the negative I bite my tongue as long as possible and then let it out, especially if asked. If I have to sit through a recital and I think the performer stank I’m not handing em a rose and telling em how much I liked it. I beat a hasty retreat or am forced to either find a trivial detail that didn’t suck or simply vent in as polite a manner as the event allows. If an opinion is asked I will not lie. To me lieing is much worse then being told I suck. I can do something to change suckage, being lied to you never know if ya should change or not. I have bad some bad tattoos and I know it, I still show em when people ask, but I don’t get pissed when people say they suck, they do, and I prolly won’t cover em for sentimental reasons. Life lesson, first be honest with yourself, then everyone else. If you do that the truth won’t hurt ya anymore. I’m all for being considerate and helpfull, but for christ sakes if anyone asks an opinion they need to be willing to accept that it may not be the one they want to hear. How many kids out there have been reinforced on something because they were told how good they are instead of the truth? Especially in artistic pursuits. Hell had anyone ever been honest to the artist that did that gator the machine might have been sold off before hand saving the work for someone with some real talent. — Chumley The Happy Clown "Thanks for the memories" —- Bob Hope

i actually meant i feel bad for him because his tattoo looked so bad. that’s all. i swear to god.

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writes: Well, well… You certainly are a merciless bunch. =) Did you look at it though, I mean no one said anything that wasn’t true. http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/tattoo.htm In case ya missed it.  i feel bad for this guy. i couldn’t tell, though, from his original post if he was actually proud of that tattoo or not.

Allright, time for me to rant a little bit, this one’s been a long time coming. Why the hell is it that as long as we are nice and polite and patting each other on the back everything is fine. But if something that is negative is called out, it becomes an issue. I personally take issue with what I often see as empty support. I try to live as honest as possible, and if that means calling someone an idiot to their face so be it, that’s what I think, the same goes for bad art, piercings, clothes, and hairstyles. When I say that I like something it is deeply and honestly true, and I don’t beat around the bush on it, with the negative I bite my tongue as long as possible and then let it out, especially if asked. If I have to sit through a recital and I think the performer stank I’m not handing em a rose and telling em how much I liked it. I beat a hasty retreat or am forced to either find a trivial detail that didn’t suck or simply vent in as polite a manner as the event allows. If an opinion is asked I will not lie. To me lieing is much worse then being told I suck. I can do something to change suckage, being lied to you never know if ya should change or not. I have bad some bad tattoos and I know it, I still show em when people ask, but I don’t get pissed when people say they suck, they do, and I prolly won’t cover em for sentimental reasons. Life lesson, first be honest with yourself, then everyone else. If you do that the truth won’t hurt ya anymore. I’m all for being considerate and helpfull, but for christ sakes if anyone asks an opinion they need to be willing to accept that it may not be the one they want to hear. How many kids out there have been reinforced on something because they were told how good they are instead of the truth? Especially in artistic pursuits. Hell had anyone ever been honest to the artist that did that gator the machine might have been sold off before hand saving the work for someone with some real talent. — Chumley The Happy Clown "Thanks for the memories" —- Bob Hope

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i think that people should have told this man not to get an alligator tattoo when he first posted, if they felt this way.  or maybe told him "hey, check out this artist" or "a tribal alligator would look fucking awesome".  or even "alligator tattoos are ugly, don’t get one"

If he -is- proud of it, all the bashing in the world will not affect him. If the bashing makes him think twice about what he’s done, all the better. maybe he’ll think a little harder next time. |+/-1 — "i’ve got your goat. i’ll sell it back to you cheap, though."                                 – lish      *Amputate the ‘pinkies’ to respond.*

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DB   i feel bad for this guy. i couldn’t tell, though, from his original post DB if he was actually proud of that tattoo or not.         i don’t know – it’s a crappy tattoo & all, but it’s actually not THAT bad if it’s only an inch long. he didn’t post back to my size question.         then again, it’s always better to minimize your faults (& ugly tattoo work), so if it’s tiny, that HAS to make it better. lish 28.6% / 31

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S Or he needs IGEA. But I’m not pitching in. Only for Lish will I.         you’re such a damned tease. sure, it’s all fine & fun on the newsgroup, but i really need my apartment vacuumed & you’re not here. hmph! lish 28.6% / 31

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Question:

i liked it when the monkey humped peoples legs! false-corey, the self appointed mr. blackwell of punk rock. solidarity. love and unity. set me free with a bullet and a gun.

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not that there’s anything wrong with wrestling… -will

There is somethiong reallyt wrong with wrestling and just as much people who find it interesting. Jesse Cannon Yeah thats right.

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There is somethiong reallyt wrong with wrestling and just as much people who find it interesting.

Better wrestling than Star Wars, I figure. Andrew. Why do all these homosexuals keep sucking my cock?

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Better wrestling than Star Wars, I figure. Andrew.

Both are gayer then gay. Jesse Cannon Yeah thats right.

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There is somethiong reallyt wrong with wrestling and just as much people who find it interesting.

Watching wrestling is fine if you can accept: 1) It’s fake 2) It’s stupid 3) It’s nothing to get exicted over. Nick "I can’t believe he called my mother a gorilla!" – Jim Conaboy

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Watching wrestling is fine if you can accept: 1) It’s fake 2) It’s stupid 3) It’s nothing to get exicted over.

and that its really fun to laugh at. false-corey, the self appointed mr. blackwell of punk rock. every order has within it the germ of destruction.

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Personally, I enjoy wrestling on many levels. The acting, the athleticism displayed by many of the smaller wrestlers, and the absurd story lines all tickle my fancy. It’s better than watching Friends or Dawsons Creek, in my opinion. I know it’s not real, it’s not supposed to be. It is a parody of itself, and therein lies the beauty. Andrew. Why do all these homosexuals keep sucking my cock?

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But it’s cool because you can get unlimited refills on your soda and soup! Phil. Hair Pie.

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But it’s cool because you can get unlimited refills on your soda and soup!

Duh, this should have went to the Olive Garden post. Phil. Hair Pie.

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It’s better than watching Friends or Dawsons Creek, in my opinion.

oh please, friends is hilarious. youve obviously never watched it — instead of jumping on the friends bandwagon, youve jumped on another trisha you can never turn me off, just spin me upsidedown

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oh please, friends is hilarious.

Wrong. youve obviously never watched it

I have and I deeply regret the half hour of my life that can never be retrieved. Andrew. Why do all these homosexuals keep sucking my cock?

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oh please, friends is hilarious. Wrong.

come on andrew. chandler bing is the quinesential nineties male role model. every guy wants to be with him and every girl wishes they were him. false-corey, the self appointed mr. blackwell of punk rock. every order has within it the germ of destruction.

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There is somethiong reallyt wrong with wrestling and just as much people who find it interesting. Watching wrestling is fine if you can accept: 1) It’s fake 2) It’s stupid 3) It’s nothing to get exicted over. Nick

exactly.   wrestling is like the black metal of monday night television. -will

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wrestling is like the black metal of monday night television.

Best analogy ever! Andrew. Why do all these homosexuals keep sucking my cock?

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every guy wants to be with him and every girl wishes they were him.

Bree ‘mistakes my gagging for a smile’

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It’s better than watching Friends or Dawsons Creek, in my opinion. oh please, friends is hilarious. youve obviously never watched it — instead of jumping on the friends bandwagon, youve jumped on another trisha

Friends was funny the first season, when they actually relied on humor and not character development to fuel the show.  But then they got rid of the monkey, who was at that time the most personable character.  And it all went downhill from there. See, I don’t give a fuck about them getting married or having kids or shit like that, because it’s not at all funny.  If I want human drama (which I often do), I will watch an Ingmar Bergman film. — Corey Barr "What’s a better way to show loyalty to your crew  than sharing iced tea that was freshly brewed?"                                 -Crucial Unit

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I saw today.  He had camouflage pants on that were tucked into his military-style boots.  Here’s the kicker: he was with his family and had a shirt on that said, "I’m here about the BLOWJOB"  He was completely out of shape, had bad tattoos.  It was fucking disgusting.

i could totally see guy living in my town. working at walmart third shift i saw all the winners. im so glad i quit that job.      I saw it on alt.music.hardcore, so it MUST be true.–Chris Ross

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he was with his family and had a shirt on that said, "I’m here about the BLOWJOB"  

where can i find one of these shirts? trisha you can never turn me off, just spin me upsidedown

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or how about the ever popular white trash wwf shirt "got head?". people who own this shirt should be thrown into a pit of dead somalians and shot repeatedly. false-corey, the self appointed mr. blackwell of punk rock. every order has within it the germ of destruction.

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or how about the ever popular white trash wwf shirt "got head?". people who own this shirt should be thrown into a pit of dead somalians and shot repeatedly. false-corey,

anyone who spends 30 bucks on a wrestling t-shirt, and then advertises that fact by actually wearing it in public, is already a lost cause.  not that there’s anything wrong with wrestling… -will

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I saw today.  He had camouflage pants on that were tucked into his military-style boots.  Here’s the kicker: he was with his family and had a shirt on that said, "I’m here about the BLOWJOB"  He was completely out of shape, had bad tattoos.  It was fucking disgusting. Nick "I can’t believe he called my mother a gorilla!" – Jim Conaboy

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Question:

the new issue of skin & ink came in the mail today everybody needs to check it out they have made it very clear that they will not accept ads from suppliers who sell to scratchers via the full page tattoo mag ads . they give alot of insight into the old school ethics and values that are all to rapidly disappearing in this business. personally i have not financialy supported the mags that help huck spaulding to sell to anyone who has some cash for several years . what he is doing is ethicly wrong , just pure greed. like so many others in this biz, such as other suppliers and people who run schools of tattooing , or sell how to videos . better wake up folks this can’t go on forever.

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Hey gakdal61…are you a tattoo artist? Because I was wondering….You say its so awful to sell tattoing equipmet and all to people who dont know how to use it. And from what I hear its not very easy getting into this line of work. So how do you expect someone to get into the buisness when no one is willing to help out? I am not a tattoo artist or a piercer. I am interested in becoming a piercer but im sure I wouldnet find anyone to offer me a job. Let me ask you a serious question. I have seen alot of places offering to apprentice people in tattooing a piercing. Like Singapore jons or notorious eds, Are these just scams or a place to actually get the knowlege you need to become a bodyartist? any help would be cool thanks – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the new issue of skin & ink came in the mail today everybody needs to check it out they have made it very clear that they will not accept ads from suppliers who sell to scratchers via the full page tattoo mag ads . they give alot of insight into the old school ethics and values that are all to rapidly disappearing in this business. personally i have not financialy supported the mags that help huck spaulding to sell to anyone who has some cash for several years . what he is doing is ethicly wrong , just pure greed. like so many others in this biz, such as other suppliers and people who run schools of tattooing , or sell how to videos . better wake up folks this can’t go on forever.

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Hey gakdal61…are you a tattoo artist? Because I was wondering….You say its so awful to sell tattoing equipmet and all to people who dont know how to use it. And from what I hear its not very easy getting into this line of work. So how do you expect someone to get into the buisness when no one is willing to help out? I am not a tattoo artist or a piercer. I am interested in becoming a piercer but im sure I wouldnet find anyone to offer me a job. Let me ask you a serious question. I have seen alot of places offering to apprentice people in tattooing a piercing. Like Singapore jons or notorious eds, Are these just scams or a place to actually get the knowlege you need to become a bodyartist? any help would be cool

That depends quite squarely on how much of your money they want to teach you. —–yttrx

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Most people I have met that claim it is close to impossable to get into this (tattooing) line of work don’t deserve to be doing it anyway. Getting an apprenticeship may take time, but if a person is a good artist it will happen. The "all you need tattoo equipment ads" in the magazines are responsable for most of the problems we are having in tattooing today. Bad tattoos from scratchers disease transmission tattooing of minors etc….. It’s not all you need. Most importantly – education, but just think – for $500. they offer all you need. If that was true tattooists would be the wealthiest people on the planet. It costs a lot of money to run a pro studio. Aarron Tattoo Elegance – Port Angeles, WA http://www.angelfire.com/wa/tattooist

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Amen,   People don’t realize how much work, time, and money it takes to do top quality professional tattooing.  All the time spent making needles, bagging, sterilizing ect.  then after rent and bills and supplies.   It irks me when someone argues over price cuase "I got this one for $20."  Yeah, it looks like it too.  You’d have to pay me to put some of that shit on me.   Hate to sound like I’m bitching and whining, but I’m sure some of you know exactly what I mean. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The "all you need tattoo equipment ads" in the magazines are responsable for most of the problems we are having in tattooing today. It’s not all you need. Most importantly – education, but just think – for $500. they offer all you need. If that was true tattooists would be the wealthiest people on the planet. It costs a lot of money to run a pro studio. Aarron

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true true i wouldnt want to pay someone 19 dollars for something i mean that would have to be like a dot..i wouldnt trust anyone who did that it would be shit…..hell i trust more people who charge lots of money cause then you could trust them to do quality work some guy just snubed my lizard was crap but it isnt i payed 85 dollars for a 6 inch lizard on my back this guy thinks his is better his tiger looked like it got drawn on by a kindergardner and he payed 10bucks for it and well his marvin the martin is prety shittiy too… guess any guy who would have his own name tattooed on his own damn arm would be stupid enought to pay  low bucks for shit huh — Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email — always at Talkway. http://www.talkway.com

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Question:

Jade Dragon’s tattooing and piercing facility?  If so, would you recommend it? That is where my friend and I plan to go….Thanks! Sarah ~*But the closer you look you notice that we’re not that different after all.We share quite a few things if you start to think about it. We all need air to breathe. We all need love to live. And we share one other thing, and that is dreams.*~GTate

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Jade Dragon’s tattooing and piercing facility?  If so, would you recommend it? That is where my friend and I plan to go….Thanks!

I WOULD NOT recommend going there!!!! It is a factory style shop, get’em in and get the money. I used to live in Chicago and I can recommend a few good places: Body Basics- I used to work there, clean and good artists Chicago tattoo- a good street style shop, Dennis is FAB! Guilty and Innocent, good work but a wait Delux tattoo, new but very good reviews. Chicago is full of great artists, Check out a couple of shops first, look at the artists portfolios. Your tattoo is with you the rest of your life, you deserve the best, make sure you get it!                         Misha #

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jade Dragon’s tattooing and piercing facility?  If so, would you recommend it? That is where my friend and I plan to go….Thanks! I WOULD NOT recommend going there!!!! It is a factory style shop, get’em in and get the money. I used to live in Chicago and I can recommend a few good places: Body Basics- I used to work there, clean and good artists Chicago tattoo- a good street style shop, Dennis is FAB! Guilty and Innocent, good work but a wait Delux tattoo, new but very good reviews.

I absolootlee can’t agree with Misha more!  I am a life long Chicagoan – do not go to Jade Dragon!  Fat Joe and Cocoa (the owners) are in it for the money!  They are known as the ‘fast food’ joint of tattoo shops here in Chitown.  All of the above named artist/shops are a great place to start. Chicago is full of great artists, Check out a couple of shops first, look at the artists portfolios. Your tattoo is with you the rest of your life, you deserve the best, make sure you get it!                         Misha #

She knows her stuff! Love ya Mish, — G

Question:

all the bad tattoos.

i like some of them, like the ones on your fingers. those are nice trisha

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   p.s. were you there?  who were you?

he was there…and he asked about you…hmmm….curious* lovegermssticktothesideofanvils

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        "i know, he seriously won my respect.         selena         p.s. were you there?  who were you?" yeah i was there who was i? hmm

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       p.s. were you there?  who were you? he was there…and he asked about you…hmmm….curious*

        what did you say?  that i’m a violent woman but a good cook?  that i have this ability to dole out the "mean" stuff (YOUR WORD, NOT MINE)? but damn, i’m really a nice broad deep down.  deep deep down.  underneath all the bad tattoos.         selena — – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – kings, queens and potentates don’t want soulmates they understand fate would never allow such unions to last i am now part of Her Majesty’s past

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all the bad tattoos.

yea, you got a lot of them lovegermssticktothesideofanvils

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all the bad tattoos. yea, you got a lot of them

i am walking art.  you know you love me. selena leong knight.

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now this is weird…my wife is cheating on me w/ dubin….sans that shit lovegermssticktothesideofanvils

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yeah that was really cool of him.

Response:

big fucking awesome bbq!

so i show up really late and dubin gives me 2 iced teas and this black ventriloquist’s dummy that he’s been promising me for months. i walk outside to drink the iced teas he gave me and i sit my dummy on the curb. next thing i know, baldwin kicks the dummy and tries to attack it and me. so i beat him sensless with the dummy, destroying it in the process. all i have left of the dummy is its broken head and little black arms. man, did i freak out on baldwin. "What the fuck are robster craws?"

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dubins house was a great spot along my tour of LI this summer. thanks dubin danielle "I would rather stay in bed with you, till its time to get a drink" -Galaxie 500-

Response:

yeah that was really cool of him.

        i know, he seriously won my respect.         selena         p.s. were you there?  who were you? — – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – kings, queens and potentates don’t want soulmates they understand fate would never allow such unions to last i am now part of Her Majesty’s past

Response:

big fucking awesome bbq! so i show up really late and dubin gives me 2 iced teas and this black ventriloquist’s dummy that he’s been promising me for months. i walk outside to drink the iced teas he gave me and i sit my dummy on the curb. next thing i know, baldwin kicks the dummy and tries to attack it and me. so i beat him sensless with the dummy, destroying it in the process. all i have left of the dummy is its broken head and little black arms. man, did i freak out on baldwin.

        and at the end, you realized the dummy is really JULIAN FROM STILLSUIT!!!         selena — – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – kings, queens and potentates don’t want soulmates they understand fate would never allow such unions to last i am now part of Her Majesty’s past

Response:

now this is weird…my wife is cheating on me w/ dubin….sans that shit lovegermssticktothesideofanvils

        oh so NOW ben acknowledges my undying love and marriage to him.         figures a little jealousy enlivens the mix.         xxooxx         selena l. knight — – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – kings, queens and potentates don’t want soulmates they understand fate would never allow such unions to last i am now part of Her Majesty’s past

Response:

big fucking awesome bbq! he was concerned that i was sick and kept asking if i was "okay," and offering to get me a soda. nice house! points sharing at friday’s! that’s it, he’s my new best friend. selena

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