Question:

Dear Sara Wonderful to see how much you enjoyed the wedding. I am soooooooo happy for you and the happy couple. I think you cried at exactly the right moment, because you had me crying as I read your beautiful message. I then laughed at how close you and Dorothy have become…who would have guessed the outcome would be like this. "What a wonderful world" – one of my favourite songs and it seems you had no probs dancing. Very proud of you Sara, I am so happy that it turned out to be the best day ever for you. I know how much stress you’ve been under lately, so you truly deserved for everything to turn out so wonderfully. Lucky 13, has always been my favourite number. Vanessa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, it finally happened!  My son Paul’s and Becky’s wedding was last night. I was so tired when I got home, I drank 2 cups of coffee just so I could make it up the stairs, LOL. It was a beautiful ceremony and everyone, including ME had a GREAT time!! You all were right, (especially you, Vicki) – I did just fine. I didn’t even get nervous walking down the aisle, I had seen so many friends in the lobby, I knew it was a "safe" place to be.  The wedding procession started with the grandparents and then the parents.  My younger son escorted me to my seat.  Next, Paul came out with his best man and the pastor, to the cheers of the whole crowd. Gary, our pastor told everyone to have a seat, and the groomsmen and the bridesmaids and 2 maids of honor came in.  There were 6 of each (12 total). When Becky and her father appeared in the doorway, it was the mom’s job to stand so the rest of the crowd would know that it was time to. Becky was so beautiful.  Her dress was simple, but very elegant.  She had a halter top as the bodice, and a short train behind.  She has very short hair, and she didn’t want a veil, but she had little silver butterflies  pinning down her hair.  Her father gave her away,then Paul and Becky followed Gary up on to the stage. When Becky turned her back to the crowd, she has a huge butterfly tattoo on her back, and it was beautiful with the wedding dress. Before they gave their vows, they wanted Gary to deliver a message, chiefly for anyone who might have come to the wedding who was not a Christian.  Gary is a very gifted speaker, and afterwards, several people told us — including Becky’s dad, that they wanted to start coming to the church.  We got a lot of compliments on his message.  After Gary was finished, Paul first gave  his vows.  They were so touching and he was so emotional, I thought he was going to cry.  He told Becky she was the greatest gift God had ever given him and pledged his love and his lifetime dedication to her and their future family. Then Becky gave her vows and thanked God for bringing Paul into her life, and pledged her love and dedication to him until death.  They exchanged rings, kissed, and Gary presented them to the audience as Paul and Rebecca A. That’s when I lost it, I kept the tears back until that moment, but it was so overwhelming, I couldn’t help myself. They left the room, Paul and Becky first, then the wedding party behind them. We stayed in our seats until Paul and Becky returned to greet family members. After we hugged and kissed, we went out into the lobby and went back to where the food was being served.  We had baked chicken, lasagna, garlic bread and breadsticks and a tossed salad.  There was also a bar with soda and beer and wine.  I’d taken a Xanax early, so I decided it was ok to have 1 beer.  I sat with my mom, Becky’s mom and her husband, and Becky’s brother and his wife. Becky’s family is wonderful.  I especially like her dad, and her stepmother, who Becky is closer to than her mom.  They are all so friendly and so approving of Paul.  I feel like my family has just suddenly gotten really big, and I just love all of them — including Becky’s mom who I worried about so much because of her multiple marriages.  Dorothy has turned out to be a very affectionate person, she hugged and kissed me all night! After we were finished eating, the best man and the maids of honor gave their toasts.  Paul’s best man was Mark, they have lived together 6 years and he is a cut up, and he told a story about his own father was in the hospital. Everyone thought he was going to say how much Paul had helped him through that time, but then he said, "And I noticed Paul had on MY underwear! And I told him don’t you DARE put those back!!"  And then he gave a serious toast about how Paul had grown in his faith and had become a man since they first became friends. We all ate, then Paul and Becky danced to a song that was written especially for their wedding. Then Becky and her father danced, and part way through the dance, they sent Paul and I out.  We danced to Louis Armstong’s "Wonderful World".  I just wept and told Paul what a beautiful ceremony it was, and how proud I was of him. Then Dorothy cut the cake. Becky had vowed that Paul was going to get it big time, but he was quicker than she was.  She got cake mashed all over her face. The dancing then began.  Even my mom joined Mark out on the dance floor. I danced with several members of Becky’s family. My mom and I danced in a circle with Becky’s dad and step mom, and several others joined us – my younger son, and one of Becky’s aunt’s her toddler.  It was so much fun! I got to see a lot of old friends and family members.  My ex was there, and we hugged, and I hugged his wife.  His aunt came.  I always liked her very much, and her two daughters. I hadn’t seen that part of my ex’s family for 20 years, and it was really nice that they came. We invited 250 people and 375 turned out.  There were a lot of teenagers and children.  Becky works with the highschool group in our church, and Paul teaches second grade, so there were a lot of young people who came. Anyway… we got to the church at 4:30, and we got home about 10:30 so exhausted, we couldn’t move.  As I said, I had to have 2 cups of coffee just to get up the energy to climb the stairs to bed. So .. that’s how it went.  It was fun as HELL!! we had a blast, my mom had a great time too.  Soon as they are available, I’ll have pictures and I’ll try to figure out how to post them so you all can see me and my son and my beautiful brand new daughter in law.  Thank you all so much for your support in the stressful time leading up to the wedding.  I was beside myself being overwhelmed with school and the anticipation of the wedding.  The last thing I expected to do was have the greatest night of my life, and that’s what happened. ))))) Sara    ^..^< Anxiety, I can’t get nothin done Anxiety destroys all the fun – Pat Benetar

Response:

Sara, Sounds like a beautiful ceremony and a fun-filled reception.  I am happy for you that everything flowed well and you had a great time… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, it finally happened!  My son Paul’s and Becky’s wedding was last night. I was so tired when I got home, I drank 2 cups of coffee just so I could make it up the stairs, LOL. It was a beautiful ceremony and everyone, including ME had a GREAT time!! You all were right, (especially you, Vicki) – I did just fine. I didn’t even get nervous walking down the aisle, I had seen so many friends in the lobby, I knew it was a "safe" place to be.  The wedding procession started with the grandparents and then the parents.  My younger son escorted me to my seat.  Next, Paul came out with his best man and the pastor, to the cheers of the whole crowd. Gary, our pastor told everyone to have a seat, and the groomsmen and the bridesmaids and 2 maids of honor came in.  There were 6 of each (12 total). When Becky and her father appeared in the doorway, it was the mom’s job to stand so the rest of the crowd would know that it was time to. Becky was so beautiful.  Her dress was simple, but very elegant.  She had a halter top as the bodice, and a short train behind.  She has very short hair, and she didn’t want a veil, but she had little silver butterflies  pinning down her hair.  Her father gave her away,then Paul and Becky followed Gary up on to the stage. When Becky turned her back to the crowd, she has a huge butterfly tattoo on her back, and it was beautiful with the wedding dress. Before they gave their vows, they wanted Gary to deliver a message, chiefly for anyone who might have come to the wedding who was not a Christian.  Gary is a very gifted speaker, and afterwards, several people told us — including Becky’s dad, that they wanted to start coming to the church.  We got a lot  of compliments on his message.  After Gary was finished, Paul first gave  his vows.  They were so touching and he was so emotional, I thought he was going to cry.  He told Becky she was the greatest gift God had ever given him and pledged his love and his lifetime dedication to her and their future family. Then Becky gave her vows and thanked God for bringing Paul into her life, and pledged her love and dedication to him until death.  They exchanged rings, kissed, and Gary presented them to the audience as Paul and Rebecca A. That’s when I lost it, I kept the tears back until that moment, but it was so overwhelming, I couldn’t help myself. They left the room, Paul and Becky first, then the wedding party behind them. We stayed in our seats until Paul and Becky returned to greet family members. After we hugged and kissed, we went out into the lobby and went back to where the food was being served.  We had baked chicken, lasagna, garlic bread and breadsticks and a tossed salad.  There was also a bar with soda and beer and wine.  I’d taken a Xanax early, so I decided it was ok to have 1 beer.  I sat with my mom, Becky’s mom and her husband, and Becky’s brother and his wife. Becky’s family is wonderful.  I especially like her dad, and her stepmother, who Becky is closer to than her mom.  They are all so friendly and so approving of Paul.  I feel like my family has just suddenly gotten really big, and I just love all of them — including Becky’s mom who I worried about so much because of her multiple marriages.  Dorothy has turned out to be a very affectionate person, she hugged and kissed me all night! After we were finished eating, the best man and the maids of honor gave their toasts.  Paul’s best man was Mark, they have lived together 6 years and he is a cut up, and he told a story about his own father was in the hospital. Everyone thought he was going to say how much Paul had helped him through that time, but then he said, "And I noticed Paul had on MY underwear! And I told him don’t you DARE put those back!!"  And then he gave a serious toast about how Paul had grown in his faith and had become a man since they first became friends. We all ate, then Paul and Becky danced to a song that was written especially for their wedding. Then Becky and her father danced, and part way through the dance, they sent Paul and I out.  We danced to Louis Armstong’s "Wonderful World".  I just wept and told Paul what a beautiful ceremony it was, and how proud I was of him. Then Dorothy cut the cake. Becky had vowed that Paul was going to get it big time, but he was quicker than she was.  She got cake mashed all over her face. The dancing then began.  Even my mom joined Mark out on the dance floor. I danced with several members of Becky’s family. My mom and I danced in a circle with Becky’s dad and step mom, and several others joined us – my younger son, and one of Becky’s aunt’s her toddler.  It was so much fun! I got to see a lot of old friends and family members.  My ex was there, and we hugged, and I hugged his wife.  His aunt came.  I always liked her very much, and her two daughters. I hadn’t seen that part of my ex’s family for 20 years, and it was really nice that they came. We invited 250 people and 375 turned out.  There were a lot of teenagers and children.  Becky works with the highschool group in our church, and Paul teaches second grade, so there were a lot of young people who came. Anyway… we got to the church at 4:30, and we got home about 10:30 so exhausted, we couldn’t move.  As I said, I had to have 2 cups of coffee just to get up the energy to climb the stairs to bed. So .. that’s how it went.  It was fun as HELL!! we had a blast, my mom had a great time too.  Soon as they are available, I’ll have pictures and I’ll try to figure out how to post them so you all can see me and my son and my beautiful brand new daughter in law.  Thank you all so much for your support in the stressful time leading up to the wedding.  I was beside myself being overwhelmed with school and the anticipation of the wedding.  The last thing I expected to do was have the greatest night of my life, and that’s what happened. ))))) Sara    ^..^< Anxiety, I can’t get nothin done Anxiety destroys all the fun – Pat Benetar

Response:

Well, it finally happened!  My son Paul’s and Becky’s wedding was last night. I was so tired when I got home, I drank 2 cups of coffee just so I could make it up the stairs, LOL. It was a beautiful ceremony and everyone, including ME had a GREAT time!! You all were right, (especially you, Vicki) – I did just fine. I didn’t even get nervous walking down the aisle, I had seen so many friends in the lobby, I knew it was a "safe" place to be.  The wedding procession started with the grandparents and then the parents.  My younger son escorted me to my seat.  Next, Paul came out with his best man and the pastor, to the cheers of the whole crowd. Gary, our pastor told everyone to have a seat, and the groomsmen and the bridesmaids and 2 maids of honor came in.  There were 6 of each (12 total). When Becky and her father appeared in the doorway, it was the mom’s job to stand so the rest of the crowd would know that it was time to.   Becky was so beautiful.  Her dress was simple, but very elegant.  She had a halter top as the bodice, and a short train behind.  She has very short hair, and she didn’t want a veil, but she had little silver butterflies  pinning down her hair.  Her father gave her away,then Paul and Becky followed Gary up on to the stage. When Becky turned her back to the crowd, she has a huge butterfly tattoo on her back, and it was beautiful with the wedding dress. Before they gave their vows, they wanted Gary to deliver a message, chiefly for anyone who might have come to the wedding who was not a Christian.  Gary is a very gifted speaker, and afterwards, several people told us — including Becky’s dad, that they wanted to start coming to the church.  We got a lot of compliments on his message.  After Gary was finished, Paul first gave  his vows.  They were so touching and he was so emotional, I thought he was going to cry.  He told Becky she was the greatest gift God had ever given him and pledged his love and his lifetime dedication to her and their future family. Then Becky gave her vows and thanked God for bringing Paul into her life, and pledged her love and dedication to him until death.  They exchanged rings, kissed, and Gary presented them to the audience as Paul and Rebecca A.  That’s when I lost it, I kept the tears back until that moment, but it was so overwhelming, I couldn’t help myself. They left the room, Paul and Becky first, then the wedding party behind them. We stayed in our seats until Paul and Becky returned to greet family members. After we hugged and kissed, we went out into the lobby and went back to where the food was being served.  We had baked chicken, lasagna, garlic bread and breadsticks and a tossed salad.  There was also a bar with soda and beer and wine.  I’d taken a Xanax early, so I decided it was ok to have 1 beer.  I sat with my mom, Becky’s mom and her husband, and Becky’s brother and his wife. Becky’s family is wonderful.  I especially like her dad, and her stepmother, who Becky is closer to than her mom.  They are all so friendly and so approving of Paul.  I feel like my family has just suddenly gotten really big, and I just love all of them — including Becky’s mom who I worried about so much because of her multiple marriages.  Dorothy has turned out to be a very affectionate person, she hugged and kissed me all night! After we were finished eating, the best man and the maids of honor gave their toasts.  Paul’s best man was Mark, they have lived together 6 years and he is a cut up, and he told a story about his own father was in the hospital. Everyone thought he was going to say how much Paul had helped him through that time, but then he said, "And I noticed Paul had on MY underwear! And I told him don’t you DARE put those back!!"  And then he gave a serious toast about how Paul had grown in his faith and had become a man since they first became friends. We all ate, then Paul and Becky danced to a song that was written especially for their wedding. Then Becky and her father danced, and part way through the dance, they sent Paul and I out.  We danced to Louis Armstong’s "Wonderful World".  I just wept and told Paul what a beautiful ceremony it was, and how proud I was of him.   Then Dorothy cut the cake. Becky had vowed that Paul was going to get it big time, but he was quicker than she was.  She got cake mashed all over her face. The dancing then began.  Even my mom joined Mark out on the dance floor.  I danced with several members of Becky’s family. My mom and I danced in a circle with Becky’s dad and step mom, and several others joined us – my younger son, and one of Becky’s aunt’s her toddler.  It was so much fun! I got to see a lot of old friends and family members.  My ex was there, and we hugged, and I hugged his wife.  His aunt came.  I always liked her very much, and her two daughters. I hadn’t seen that part of my ex’s family for 20 years, and it was really nice that they came. We invited 250 people and 375 turned out.  There were a lot of teenagers and children.  Becky works with the highschool group in our church, and Paul teaches second grade, so there were a lot of young people who came. Anyway… we got to the church at 4:30, and we got home about 10:30 so exhausted, we couldn’t move.  As I said, I had to have 2 cups of coffee just to get up the energy to climb the stairs to bed. So .. that’s how it went.  It was fun as HELL!! we had a blast, my mom had a great time too.  Soon as they are available, I’ll have pictures and I’ll try to figure out how to post them so you all can see me and my son and my beautiful brand new daughter in law.  Thank you all so much for your support in the stressful time leading up to the wedding.  I was beside myself being overwhelmed with school and the anticipation of the wedding.  The last thing I expected to do was have the greatest night of my life, and that’s what happened. ))))) Sara    ^..^< Anxiety, I can’t get nothin done Anxiety destroys all the fun – Pat Benetar

Response:

Wonderful, Sara!!!  I was thinking about you! So glad you had fun. Love, Vicki

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, it finally happened!  My son Paul’s and Becky’s wedding was last night. I was so tired when I got home, I drank 2 cups of coffee just so I could make it up the stairs, LOL. It was a beautiful ceremony and everyone, including ME had a GREAT time!! You all were right, (especially you, Vicki) – I did just fine. I didn’t even get nervous walking down the aisle, I had seen so many friends in the lobby, I knew it was a "safe" place to be.  The wedding procession started with the grandparents and then the parents.  My younger son escorted me to my seat.  Next, Paul came out with his best man and the pastor, to the cheers of the whole crowd. Gary, our pastor told everyone to have a seat, and the groomsmen and the bridesmaids and 2 maids of honor came in.  There were 6 of each (12 total). When Becky and her father appeared in the doorway, it was the mom’s job to stand so the rest of the crowd would know that it was time to. Becky was so beautiful.  Her dress was simple, but very elegant.  She had a halter top as the bodice, and a short train behind.  She has very short hair, and she didn’t want a veil, but she had little silver butterflies  pinning down her hair.  Her father gave her away,then Paul and Becky followed Gary up on to the stage. When Becky turned her back to the crowd, she has a huge butterfly tattoo on her back, and it was beautiful with the wedding dress. Before they gave their vows, they wanted Gary to deliver a message, chiefly for anyone who might have come to the wedding who was not a Christian.  Gary is a very gifted speaker, and afterwards, several people told us — including Becky’s dad, that they wanted to start coming to the church.  We got a lot of compliments on his message.  After Gary was finished, Paul first gave  his vows.  They were so touching and he was so emotional, I thought he was going to cry.  He told Becky she was the greatest gift God had ever given him and pledged his love and his lifetime dedication to her and their future family. Then Becky gave her vows and thanked God for bringing Paul into her life, and pledged her love and dedication to him until death.  They exchanged rings, kissed, and Gary presented them to the audience as Paul and Rebecca A. That’s when I lost it, I kept the tears back until that moment, but it was so overwhelming, I couldn’t help myself. They left the room, Paul and Becky first, then the wedding party behind them. We stayed in our seats until Paul and Becky returned to greet family members. After we hugged and kissed, we went out into the lobby and went back to where the food was being served.  We had baked chicken, lasagna, garlic bread and breadsticks and a tossed salad.  There was also a bar with soda and beer and wine.  I’d taken a Xanax early, so I decided it was ok to have 1 beer.  I sat with my mom, Becky’s mom and her husband, and Becky’s brother and his wife. Becky’s family is wonderful.  I especially like her dad, and her stepmother, who Becky is closer to than her mom.  They are all so friendly and so approving of Paul.  I feel like my family has just suddenly gotten really big, and I just love all of them — including Becky’s mom who I worried about so much because of her multiple marriages.  Dorothy has turned out to be a very affectionate person, she hugged and kissed me all night! After we were finished eating, the best man and the maids of honor gave their toasts.  Paul’s best man was Mark, they have lived together 6 years and he is a cut up, and he told a story about his own father was in the hospital. Everyone thought he was going to say how much Paul had helped him through that time, but then he said, "And I noticed Paul had on MY underwear! And I told him don’t you DARE put those back!!"  And then he gave a serious toast about how Paul had grown in his faith and had become a man since they first became friends. We all ate, then Paul and Becky danced to a song that was written especially for their wedding. Then Becky and her father danced, and part way through the dance, they sent Paul and I out.  We danced to Louis Armstong’s "Wonderful World".  I just wept and told Paul what a beautiful ceremony it was, and how proud I was of him. Then Dorothy cut the cake. Becky had vowed that Paul was going to get it big time, but he was quicker than she was.  She got cake mashed all over her face. The dancing then began.  Even my mom joined Mark out on the dance floor. I danced with several members of Becky’s family. My mom and I danced in a circle with Becky’s dad and step mom, and several others joined us – my younger son, and one of Becky’s aunt’s her toddler.  It was so much fun! I got to see a lot of old friends and family members.  My ex was there, and we hugged, and I hugged his wife.  His aunt came.  I always liked her very much, and her two daughters. I hadn’t seen that part of my ex’s family for 20 years, and it was really nice that they came. We invited 250 people and 375 turned out.  There were a lot of teenagers and children.  Becky works with the highschool group in our church, and Paul teaches second grade, so there were a lot of young people who came. Anyway… we got to the church at 4:30, and we got home about 10:30 so exhausted, we couldn’t move.  As I said, I had to have 2 cups of coffee just to get up the energy to climb the stairs to bed. So .. that’s how it went.  It was fun as HELL!! we had a blast, my mom had a great time too.  Soon as they are available, I’ll have pictures and I’ll try to figure out how to post them so you all can see me and my son and my beautiful brand new daughter in law.  Thank you all so much for your support in the stressful time leading up to the wedding.  I was beside myself being overwhelmed with school and the anticipation of the wedding.  The last thing I expected to do was have the greatest night of my life, and that’s what happened. ))))) Sara    ^..^< Anxiety, I can’t get nothin done Anxiety destroys all the fun – Pat Benetar

Response:

Well, it finally happened!  My son Paul’s and Becky’s wedding was last night. I was so tired when I got home, I drank 2 cups of coffee just so I could make it up the stairs, LOL. It was a beautiful ceremony and everyone, including ME had a GREAT time!! You all were right, (especially you, Vicki) – I did just fine.

Yaaaaay! I knew you would. Congratulations on the wedding and on being so brave as you were with such excellent results! Philip

Response:

That is so great Sara.  I knew you would have a blast.  I am so proud of you, and your son.  Give him my congratulations for me.  I hope my far-in-the-future wedding is that much fun. Robin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, it finally happened!  My son Paul’s and Becky’s wedding was last night. I was so tired when I got home, I drank 2 cups of coffee just so I could make it up the stairs, LOL. It was a beautiful ceremony and everyone, including ME had a GREAT time!! You all were right, (especially you, Vicki) – I did just fine. I didn’t even get nervous walking down the aisle, I had seen so many friends in the lobby, I knew it was a "safe" place to be.  The wedding procession started with the grandparents and then the parents.  My younger son escorted me to my seat.  Next, Paul came out with his best man and the pastor, to the cheers of the whole crowd. Gary, our pastor told everyone to have a seat, and the groomsmen and the bridesmaids and 2 maids of honor came in.  There were 6 of each (12 total). When Becky and her father appeared in the doorway, it was the mom’s job to stand so the rest of the crowd would know that it was time to. Becky was so beautiful.  Her dress was simple, but very elegant.  She had a halter top as the bodice, and a short train behind.  She has very short hair, and she didn’t want a veil, but she had little silver butterflies  pinning down her hair.  Her father gave her away,then Paul and Becky followed Gary up on to the stage. When Becky turned her back to the crowd, she has a huge butterfly tattoo on her back, and it was beautiful with the wedding dress. Before they gave their vows, they wanted Gary to deliver a message, chiefly for anyone who might have come to the wedding who was not a Christian.  Gary is a very gifted speaker, and afterwards, several people told us — including Becky’s dad, that they wanted to start coming to the church.  We got a lot of compliments on his message.  After Gary was finished, Paul first gave  his vows.  They were so touching and he was so emotional, I thought he was going to cry.  He told Becky she was the greatest gift God had ever given him and pledged his love and his lifetime dedication to her and their future family. Then Becky gave her vows and thanked God for bringing Paul into her life, and pledged her love and dedication to him until death.  They exchanged rings, kissed, and Gary presented them to the audience as Paul and Rebecca A. That’s when I lost it, I kept the tears back until that moment, but it was so overwhelming, I couldn’t help myself. They left the room, Paul and Becky first, then the wedding party behind them. We stayed in our seats until Paul and Becky returned to greet family members. After we hugged and kissed, we went out into the lobby and went back to where the food was being served.  We had baked chicken, lasagna, garlic bread and breadsticks and a tossed salad.  There was also a bar with soda and beer and wine.  I’d taken a Xanax early, so I decided it was ok to have 1 beer.  I sat with my mom, Becky’s mom and her husband, and Becky’s brother and his wife. Becky’s family is wonderful.  I especially like her dad, and her stepmother, who Becky is closer to than her mom.  They are all so friendly and so approving of Paul.  I feel like my family has just suddenly gotten really big, and I just love all of them — including Becky’s mom who I worried about so much because of her multiple marriages.  Dorothy has turned out to be a very affectionate person, she hugged and kissed me all night! After we were finished eating, the best man and the maids of honor gave their toasts.  Paul’s best man was Mark, they have lived together 6 years and he is a cut up, and he told a story about his own father was in the hospital. Everyone thought he was going to say how much Paul had helped him through that time, but then he said, "And I noticed Paul had on MY underwear! And I told him don’t you DARE put those back!!"  And then he gave a serious toast about how Paul had grown in his faith and had become a man since they first became friends. We all ate, then Paul and Becky danced to a song that was written especially for their wedding. Then Becky and her father danced, and part way through the dance, they sent Paul and I out.  We danced to Louis Armstong’s "Wonderful World".  I just wept and told Paul what a beautiful ceremony it was, and how proud I was of him. Then Dorothy cut the cake. Becky had vowed that Paul was going to get it big time, but he was quicker than she was.  She got cake mashed all over her face. The dancing then began.  Even my mom joined Mark out on the dance floor. I danced with several members of Becky’s family. My mom and I danced in a circle with Becky’s dad and step mom, and several others joined us – my younger son, and one of Becky’s aunt’s her toddler.  It was so much fun! I got to see a lot of old friends and family members.  My ex was there, and we hugged, and I hugged his wife.  His aunt came.  I always liked her very much, and her two daughters. I hadn’t seen that part of my ex’s family for 20 years, and it was really nice that they came. We invited 250 people and 375 turned out.  There were a lot of teenagers and children.  Becky works with the highschool group in our church, and Paul teaches second grade, so there were a lot of young people who came. Anyway… we got to the church at 4:30, and we got home about 10:30 so exhausted, we couldn’t move.  As I said, I had to have 2 cups of coffee just to get up the energy to climb the stairs to bed. So .. that’s how it went.  It was fun as HELL!! we had a blast, my mom had a great time too.  Soon as they are available, I’ll have pictures and I’ll try to figure out how to post them so you all can see me and my son and my beautiful brand new daughter in law.  Thank you all so much for your support in the stressful time leading up to the wedding.  I was beside myself being overwhelmed with school and the anticipation of the wedding.  The last thing I expected to do was have the greatest night of my life, and that’s what happened. ))))) Sara    ^..^< Anxiety, I can’t get nothin done Anxiety destroys all the fun – Pat Benetar

Response:

Question:

The TV station I work for is doing a story on the 5PM news tonight about, "Are tattooed and pierced people more likely to get into trouble?"  Gee, they’ve got me working for them, and I don’t get in any trouble or cause any.  They could’ve at least talked to me.  But, I think they’re definitely going to skew the story in the "other" direction. That makes me angry.  If they post a link to the story on the website after the news, I’ll post the link here. — Emily Visit Emily’s Page! http://www.emilyw.com — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The TV station I work for is doing a story on the 5PM news tonight about, "Are tattooed and pierced people more likely to get into trouble?"  Gee, they’ve got me working for them, and I don’t get in any trouble or cause any.  They could’ve at least talked to me.  But, I think they’re definitely going to skew the story in the "other" direction. That makes me angry.  If they post a link to the story on the website after the news, I’ll post the link here. — Emily Visit Emily’s Page! http://www.emilyw.com Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

What are you trying to say that Tattooed and Pierced people don’t get into more trouble? Are you trying to take away yet another of my excuses for getting into truouble? Next you are going to say that not all people from the east coast are rude asses and then what will Keith do? — http://www.axiompiercing.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The TV station I work for is doing a story on the 5PM news tonight about, "Are tattooed and pierced people more likely to get into trouble?"  Gee, they’ve got me working for them, and I don’t get in any trouble or cause any.  They could’ve at least talked to me.  But, I think they’re definitely going to skew the story in the "other" direction. That makes me angry.  If they post a link to the story on the website after the news, I’ll post the link here. — Emily Visit Emily’s Page! http://www.emilyw.com Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). What are you trying to say that Tattooed and Pierced people don’t get into more trouble? Are you trying to take away yet another of my excuses for getting into truouble? Next you are going to say that not all people from the east coast are rude asses and then what will Keith do?

Well, you shouldn’t generalize and say that all tattooed and pierced people are "bad" or troublemakers.  I know some who are, and some who aren’t.  I don’t have the feeling that they’re not looking at both sides of the issue, but I have only read part of the story at work before I left.  It wasn’t finished yet, and they’re doing a report on it, so if I’m not asleep, I’ll find out the whole story on the news.  Otherwise, I’ll look at the archives when I get to work tomorrow, or find it on their website tonight. — Emily Visit Emily’s Page! http://www.emilyw.com — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, you shouldn’t generalize and say that all tattooed and pierced people are "bad" or troublemakers.  I know some who are, and some who aren’t.  I don’t have the feeling that they’re not looking at both sides of the issue, but I have only read part of the story at work before I left.  It wasn’t finished yet, and they’re doing a report on it, so if I’m not asleep, I’ll find out the whole story on the news.  Otherwise, I’ll look at the archives when I get to work tomorrow, or find it on their website tonight. — Emily Visit Emily’s Page! http://www.emilyw.com

I was joking. I think this all comes down to the fact that when a majority of the uninformed public see Body Art they associate it with fringe and outlaw subcultures. Like bikers, punks/pick your outlaw rock and roll youth culture and criminals I think just about every tattoo collector that has a large amount of work has been asked at least once where they did time. This is changing and has been changing over the last 10 years or so years. This maybe because those that collect body art tend to be more creative, rebellious and free thinking. Not all of them but most. The body art does seem to set them apart from those not on the edge and in a way it’s like making joining a minority. It’s easy for the majority to see these people as trouble makers. They are easy to point out and are often shown in entertainment as criminals, bad guys or not the guy you want going out with your daughter. In other words they are easy targets and often good scape goats. The whole NIMBY attitude. After years of watching punk rockers, bikers and tattooed people being only criminal in TV and Movies, I find the whole thing funny and amusing. Let the media do what it wants. It’s rarely right about anything anyway. — http://www.axiompiercing.com

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opined: Next you are going to say that not all people from the east coast are rude asses and then what will Keith do?

*** Finish your site, you dumb cunt. When you are done shining my shoes, clean my boxers. By hand. Boy. Then hone your piercing skills. You have a ways to go. Mention my name again, scratcher. — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9 — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

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opined: I was joking. I think this all comes down to the fact that when a majority of the uninformed public see Body Art they associate it with fringe and outlaw subcultures. Like bikers, punks/pick your outlaw rock and roll youth culture and criminals

*** THOSE were the fucking days. I think just about every tattoo collector that has a large amount of work has been asked at least once where they did time.

*** You think wrong. This maybe because those that collect body art tend to be more creative, rebellious and free thinking.

*** Hardly. Most people with tattoos and piercings are fucking sheep. Not all of them but most.

*** Hardly. The body art does seem to set them apart from those not on the edge and in a way it’s like making joining a minority.

*** In certain age groups most are tattoo’d. Hardly a minority. Just another fucking uniform. Way as well be Gap shit. It’s easy for the majority to see these people as trouble makers. They are easy to point out and are often shown in entertainment as criminals, bad guys or not the guy you want going out with your daughter.

*** This is true. After years of watching punk rockers, bikers and tattooed people being only criminal in TV and Movies, I find the whole thing funny and amusing. Let the media do what it wants. It’s rarely right about anything anyway.

*** Maybe the media you _read._ — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9 — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

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*** Finish your site, you dumb cunt.

The site will never be done but the last face lift, link fixing and addtions are. When you are done shining my shoes, clean my boxers. By hand. Boy.

That’s strrange boxers. I always pictured as one of those uptight, tighty whity type. Then hone your piercing skills. You have a ways to go.

 Funny but I don’t think you have seen nor had any first hand knowledge of my skills. Then again neither have I of yours other then here say. Shall we leave it at that? Mention my name again, scratcher. — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9 — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n –

I mentioned your name because you sum up all I dislike of the east coast and I thought it was funny. — http://www.axiompiercing.com

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*** THOSE were the fucking days.

Yeah there were. Now a days they will let just about anyone into the club, even you. . *** Hardly. Most people with tattoos and piercings are fucking sheep.

If you really believe this it makes me wonder why you were or are even involved in the business. Not everyone is following a trend. Believe it or not but some collectors still like to express themselves through the art they wear. Not all of them but most. *** Hardly.

Come on, stop trying to be the troll under the bridge and give people a benefit of a doubt. Maybe that lame tattoo or piercing represents something to the collector other then "Hey I’m cool and I know what’s hip." Without knowing the person who the hell are you to judge. Think about it, the whole point that body art is in fact more accepted today, is a sign that we are living in a more open society then we were 15 or 20 years ago. *** In certain age groups most are tattoo’d. Hardly a minority. Just another fucking uniform. Way as well be Gap shit.

Understandable but there is a lot of unmarked skin out there. I doubt highly that a majority of the population of this planet has some kind of body art other then ear piercings. It would be a lie though, if I didn’t admit that I long for the day when you saw someone wearing art and felt more connected to them. Then again saying that it’s just a fucking uniform is buying into the sterotype that "kids today are bla bla bla". After years of watching punk rockers, bikers and tattooed people being only criminal in TV and Movies, I find the whole thing funny and amusing. Let the media do what it wants. It’s rarely right about anything anyway. *** Maybe the media you _read._

Not always but too often. Then again other then the rare case that I have time to read the paper, I get most of my day to day media by radio, internet and least of all TV. — http://www.axiompiercing.com

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opined: Yeah there were. Now a days they will let just about anyone into the club, even you.

*** I was tattooed when I was 13.   25 years ago, punk. *** Hardly. Most people with tattoos and piercings are fucking sheep. If you really believe this it makes me wonder why you were or are even involved in the business.

*** I got involved when 95% of the people getting pierced were doing for entirely different reasons then 95% of the people doing it now. 25,000 or so piercings later, I am quite qualified to make that assesment. Not ALL people, but most. Unoriginal, braindead sheep. Not everyone is following a trend. Believe it or not but some collectors still like to express themselves through the art they wear.

*** I never said SOME didn’t. I’m one of them. So yeah, I believe it. I am surrounded by collectors who use the work, or more precisely ALLOW the work to serve as a vehicle for self expression. Come on, stop trying to be the troll under the bridge and give people a benefit of a doubt.

*** Most people are sheep. Passing their days chewing cud and watching sports or reading Danielle Steele. Maybe that lame tattoo or piercing represents something to the collector other then "Hey I’m cool and I know what’s hip."

*** Maybe. I’m sure that every woman with a butterfly tattoo says it means freedom. Whatever. The majority of people wearing work got it for trendy reasons. "Looks cool" is a valid reason in my book, btw. Without knowing the person who the hell are you to judge.

*** The jury AND the executioner, Davo. My experience in this sphere outweighs your and your 10 peers experience combined. The majority of people with navel piercings are trendy fucks. The majority of people with genital piercings are not. Most people are sheep. Sheeple. Baaa, mutherfucker. Think about it, the whole point that body art is in fact more accepted today, is a sign that we are living in a more open society then we were 15 or 20 years ago.

*** Do you live in America?  It is not accepted. It is tolerated because the tipping point has been reached. This society is most certainly not as open as the 70s and 80s. *** In certain age groups most are tattoo’d. Hardly a minority. Just another fucking uniform. Way as well be Gap shit. It would be a lie though, if I didn’t admit that I long for the day when you saw someone wearing art and felt more connected to them.

*** Tattoos don’t connect you to anyone, you superficial whackjob. Then again saying that it’s just a fucking uniform is buying into the sterotype that "kids today are bla bla bla".

*** For some segments, it IS a fucking uniform. *** Maybe the media you _read._ Not always but too often. Then again other then the rare case that I have time to read the paper, I get most of my day to day media by radio, internet and least of all TV.

*** I put the emphasis on the wrong word. I meant _you_. I trust the media _I_ consume. Because I am an educated consumer and media savvy. Most people are sheep and get work for lame reasons. — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9 — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

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D That’s strrange boxers. I always pictured as one of those uptight, ti D whity type.         why are you picturing keith in his panties? D I mentioned your name because you sum up all I dislike of the east coast D I thought it was funny.         philly agrees with you. good thing i moved. lish                                "what is wrong with simply cuddling   36.9% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

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D I mentioned your name because you sum up all I dislike of the east coast

*** Strong, well-formed opinions, people more articulate than you’ll ever be, the world’s greatest city, god, I could go on and on… NYC would eat someone like you alive. Come visit, honey. I don’t like LA, but I have some great friends there. Pretty lame to "dislike" a coast, no? How do you feel about the Eastern Seaboard? And I like tight white underwear, too. Especially now that I am all dark and tanned and shit. I favor CK. I hate that fact. But my favorite pair are a pair of orange Joe Boxer boxers. Who ya gonna be thinking about while you and your boyfriend violate each other? Who’s yer daddy? — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9 — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

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*** I was tattooed when I was 13. 25 years ago, punk.

Well you are 5 years old then me and luckly the tattooist that was here in Des Moines refused to tattoo anyone under 18. Looking back I’m very happy he wouldn’t tattoo me. So I’ve been collecting for just over 15 years. You got 10 years on me big deal. *** I got involved when 95% of the people getting pierced were doing for entirely different reasons then 95% of the people doing it now. 25,000 or so piercings later, I am quite qualified to make that assesment. Not ALL people, but most. Unoriginal, braindead sheep.

Maybe in NYC but not here. Most of the sheep check the price before they get pierced and go to the cheaper studios. So, I don’t see them as much. Maybe it’s just isolation that makes me feel this is untrue. I saw more of the sheep at the begin of my career back in 94 then I do now. *** I never said SOME didn’t. I’m one of them. So yeah, I believe it. I am surrounded by collectors who use the work, or more precisely ALLOW the work to serve as a vehicle for self expression.

Glad to hear that. I was starting to think you were burned out or something.   *** Most people are sheep. Passing their days chewing cud and watching sports or reading Danielle Steele.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the Troll under the bridge. Education it is the key to everything. Not exclusion. *** Maybe. I’m sure that every woman with a butterfly tattoo says it means freedom. Whatever. The majority of people wearing work got it for trendy reasons. "Looks cool" is a valid reason in my book, btw.

Granted but often the deeper motivation is not just to look hip. I agree, people should do it for their own reason there doesn’t have to be some big deeper meaning to everything. *** The jury AND the executioner, Davo. My experience in this sphere outweighs your and your 10 peers experience combined. The majority of people with navel piercings are trendy fucks. The majority of people with genital piercings are not.

Not always true look at the number of stripers with genital piercings. I’ve most have done 50 Clit hoods on "dancers" in the past couple of months. *** Do you live in America?  It is not accepted. It is tolerated because the tipping point has been reached. This society is most certainly not as open as the 70s and 80s.

I disagree. During the 70s, you had more of an expansion of freedoms but was still very oppressive. A lot like the 60s. Where a small group of people enjoyed new freedoms while a majority of the population didn’t. The 80s were like a 50s flashback. Let’s not forget the PRMC and Reagon. Maybe acceptance is the wrong word but then again neither is tolerated. It’s more like it has been absorbed into the mainstream. *** Tattoos don’t connect you to anyone, you superficial whackjob.

There was a time that it did. A time when I saw someone else with a tattoo or piercing and we had a connection. Something that we shared. Understand not all of them but there was a bound there and an understanding. Much in the same way it was to see a guy with your favorite bands t-shirt. I’m not saying I would invite them over for dinner or let them date my sister but there was something there. *** For some segments, it IS a fucking uniform.

True, I can think of a lot of subcultures that define themselve by their art but many of these do this with their clothes, vocabulary, hand shakes or what the fuck ever. It still doesn’t mean that they are not doing it to be creative. Not all of them are characters out of Clockwork Orange.   *** I put the emphasis on the wrong word. I meant _you_. I trust the media _I_ consume. Because I am an educated consumer and media savvy.

I think you’ve been watching O’Rielly Factor far too much. I’m begining to believe the word "savvy" is double speak for close minded. I try to consume as much information as I can and then make my own judgement from there. In most cases when the subject of body art comes up in the media, it is misrepresented or completely misinformed. — http://www.axiompiercing.com

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opined: The site will never be done but the last face lift, link fixing and addtions are.

*** Fucking banner ads on your site? LAAAAAAME! Oh yeah. The site STILL sucks. "Facelift"? Fuuuuuuck. Dude, spend a grand. Hire a pro. Where are the pictures of your studio? Your space? Your clave? Your work? — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9 — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

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Not always true look at the number of stripers with genital piercings.

I love that band. —–. — "Hell, rocket science isn’t even rocket science" –A NASA rocket scientist, undernet, circa 1996

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Granted but often the deeper motivation is not just to look hip. I agree, people should do it for their own reason there doesn’t have to be some big deeper meaning to everything.

  Are you doing it to look hip, or are you doing it because you think it looks cool. These are two entirely different motivations.

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*** Strong, well-formed opinions, people more articulate than you’ll ever be, the world’s greatest city, god, I could go on and on… NYC would eat someone like you alive. Come visit, honey.

Yeah "Strong, well-formed opinions" too bad they are normally not well thought out. Then again, I’m going off my own expierences with people from New York. Fuck New York. I set here for a few minutes and thought about what good has come out of NYC. Other then a few good friends I’ve made over the years, The Ramones and The New York Dolls, I couldn’t think of one single thing. There is nothing that would motivate me to go to New York. This whole idea that life in NYC is so hard is bull shit. You people are cattered too. You can get anything you want, at any time of the day. That’s why I find NYC people to be boring, dull and lack the ablity to be inventive. You want hard living come to the midwest and try to survive. The weather is freezing or fucking hot, the work is hard and you actually have to do shit yourself instead of having it fucking handed to you. I wouldn’t give you 3 minutes on the prairie, ya tender footed city slicker sissy. I don’t like LA, but I have some great friends there.

Ever noticed that most of the people living in LA are not from LA? No real point just a thought. Oh and I like LA cause a large amount of people there are from the midwest. Pretty lame to "dislike" a coast, no? How do you feel about the Eastern Seaboard?

Is there more then one city on the east coast? I thought the whole thing ran together into one giant shit hole. Maybe not the whole coast, I mean, I like crab meat. That something. And I like tight white underwear, too. Especially now that I am all dark and tanned and shit. I favor CK. I hate that fact. But my favorite pair are a pair of orange Joe Boxer boxers.

See I knew it. Don’t you know that your boys like to be free range? Who ya gonna be thinking about while you and your boyfriend violate each other? Who’s yer daddy?

What is with all the gay stuff. Are you gay? I’m being serious. I’ve always wondered. Cause if you are that’s great. More power to ya. If your happy then that’s all that matters. I’m flattered that you are attacted to me but don’t you think it’s a little embarrassing to just keep throwing yourself at me? Sorry but I like innies. Just can’t get past the whole penis thing. — http://www.axiompiercing.com

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*** Fucking banner ads on your site? LAAAAAAME! Oh yeah. The site STILL sucks. "Facelift"? Fuuuuuuck. Dude, spend a grand. Hire a pro.

The banners will be gone soon. I keep forgetting to pay the fee. Fuck hiring a pro. Most of the "Pro" site look like every other "Pro’ site. Oh I forgot you like simple. No flash, no graphics just all text. BTW when was the last time you updated http://www.modernamerican.com?  last time I was there it didn’t seem like anything had been added in the last year or so, Where are the pictures of your studio? Your space? Your clave? Your work?

I’m still recovering from a virus infection and lost a lot of jpg files(14,000). Reformated my computer and insulted XP Pro. Lost a lot of stuff that wasn’t backed up. Add to that server problems and you have lost files. There is a 360 degree of the studio main areas and there is a picture of my work space but I need to get around to finishing the tour page. I forgot about that, thanks for remiding me. If it will make you happy Keith I’ll add a picture of the Autoclave. Do you want the model # too? There is a number of pictures of my work through out the site. I’ve thought of adding a simple thumbnail gallery of all of it but haven’t gotten around to it yet. That and I need to start remembering to take pictures. — http://www.axiompiercing.com

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Keith if you want to see all that tour stuff go to http://www.skinkitchen.com/nontour.html — http://www.axiompiercing.com

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opined: You got 10 years on me big deal.

*** My point was that I was let "into the club" looong ago. I got my first tattoo 25 years ago. Please read for comprehension. *** Not ALL people, but most. Unoriginal, braindead sheep. Maybe in NYC but not here. Most of the sheep check the price before they get pierced and go to the cheaper studios.

*** They’re still a lotta sheep getting work for sheeple reasons. NYC is a cultural center of the world. One of a very few. You’re going to compare, where are you, Des Moine, to NYC? C’maaaaaan. Sheep! Glad to hear that. I was starting to think you were burned out or something.

*** Dude. Stop. You can’t concieve what I am. I AM burned out. On trendoids, dipshits and morons. I don’t HAVE to share anything in real-time with them. They can read, right? Of COURSE I am still into it. Still getting tattoo’d. Still living a lifestyle. I fly two full fucking sleeves in the face of corporate America every goddamned day. THAT takes some skill. Piercing in some podunk shop in some strip mall and thinking yer rad and shit, don’t. You really shouldn’t be stepping up, son. I wonder if this has anything to do with the Troll under the bridge.

*** WTF? Education it is the key to everything. Not exclusion.

*** Wrong. If I didn’t exclude certain types of people from my shop or life, the quality of my life would diminish. I won’t tolerate that. Well, maybe here, for sport. Re: Education. I’ve taught more people about safe piercing than you could ever imagine. Ever read my columns in Tattoo Savage? Read about safety in the NY Times? Washington Post? Attend one of the dozens of seminars and presentations? I could go on. My point is that I educate as well as I break balls. You should really go work on that crap site. Seriously. Clean it up. Lose the banners. It’s childish and gives piercing a bad name. Granted but often the deeper motivation is not just to look hip.

*** No. Not "often." Sometimes. Rarely. Sometimes. Out of the 100% of people getting work, a small number will claim deeper reasons. Of that number, a majority will be misguided and full of shit. Most people "evolved" or at least awakened that have work will not claim that the work is what brought about thier "evolution." I wear "spiritual" motifs on my body, but they did not CAUSE any increase in "spirituality." They came AFTER the fact. Anyone who tells you that that tribal band hastened Samahdi is yanking themselves. Not always true look at the number of stripers with genital piercings. I’ve most have done 50 Clit hoods on "dancers" in the past couple of months.

*** I *love* "dancers" as you try to demean them. Strippers are some of the most individualistic woman I know. And I’d say that the vast majority of people getting genital work are doing it for sexual reasons, not sheep reasons. Please take the time to read and edit your posts for grammar, train-of-thought, tense and spelling. You’ll thank me. I disagree. During the 70s, you had more of an expansion of freedoms but was still very oppressive. A lot like the 60s. Where a small group of people enjoyed new freedoms while a majority of the population didn’t. The 80s were like a 50s flashback.

*** Oh shut the fuck up. This "War on Terrorism" has created the most repressive/oppressive conditions since McCarthy era 50s. And it is getting worse. Let’s not forget the PRMC and Reagon.

*** www.nootrope.net/dee.html . Don’t even THINK about talking to me about that topic. Tipper was more oppressive than Dubya? Regan was one of the best presidents we’ve ever had and the social conditions during his tenure can hardly be called oppressive. I say that with a caveat, but still. Also, the "majority" that didn’t enjoy "new freedoms" lived in cultural back waters where to the VERY DAY, they still don’t enjoy said freedoms. It’s more like it has been absorbed into the mainstream.

*** My point exactly. Jesus christ, man. Sheep! There was a time that it did. A time when I saw someone else with a tattoo or piercing and we had a connection. Something that we shared.

*** Even if the fuck with the tattoo was a convict? The tattoo alone is enough to share a "connection"? Hell, I need more than that. not all of them but there was a bound there and an understanding.

*** Yer dumb. Still. the same way it was to see a guy with your favorite bands t-shirt.

*** TOTALLY different story. Lyrics and so on… fuck it. I’m not saying I would invite them over for dinner or let them date my sister but there was something there.

*** Yeah. You both had a tattoo. Fucking hell. BIG DEAL. You pine for something that never was. You call ME close-minded? A tattoo never stopped me from letting someone date my sister. A shitty attitude did. A tattoo never stopped me from inviting someone over for dinner. A shitty attitide or BO did. Tattoos have NOTHING to do with connections between people on any valuable level. To me at least. You, well, whatever. *** For some segments, it IS a fucking uniform. True, I can think of a lot of subcultures that define themselve by their art but many of these do this with their clothes, vocabulary, hand shakes or what the fuck ever. It still doesn’t mean that they are not doing it to be creative. Not all of them are characters out of Clockwork Orange.

*** NOW it’s true? A real community defines itself by shared values. Bodyart is not a value. It is a pursuit, for many and something they will regret, for most. Sheeple.  *** I put the emphasis on the wrong word. I meant _you_. I trust the media _I_ consume. Because I am an educated consumer and media savvy. I think you’ve been watching O’Rielly Factor far too much. I’m begining to believe the word "savvy" is double speak for close minded.

*** Never saw it even once. I don’t have cable. I may be the most-open minded person you have ever been blessed to speak with. But I don’t suffer fools gladly. And I can smell the newbies who deserve the fang on first post. Like I did you all those years ago. You know the #1 media source for me these days? Shannon Laratt’s IAM page. The links he provides are the best source of info to weigh against what we are shown domestically. Are you in the APP? Anything along those lines? In most cases when the subject of body art comes up in the media, it is misrepresented or completely misinformed.

*** Maybe when they interview _you_ over at Hairy Mary’s. Yeah, it could be better, but that is one place where I HAVE seen improvement. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Fuuuck, I havn’t swung my dick like that ever, maybe. My apologies to those who deserve them. — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9 — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

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opined: I set here for a few minutes and thought about what good has come out of NYC. Other then a few good friends I’ve made over the years, The Ramones and The New York Dolls, I couldn’t think of one single thing.

*** Get. Off. The. Pipe. — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9 — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

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opined: The banners will be gone soon. I keep forgetting to pay the fee. Fuck hiring a pro. Most of the "Pro" site look like every other "Pro’ site.

*** And yours looks like every other Geocities site. Yeah Waaaaaaaaay better. Oh I forgot you like simple. No flash, no graphics just all text.

*** Wrong, dickcheese. I and my team actually just won an award from Macromedia. You know, the guys who invented Flash… For, guess what? BEST USE OF FLASH! Trippy, huh? I am for the correct technology for the given content. Pure info don’t need no Flash, yo. BTW when was the last time you updated http://www.modernamerican.com?  last time I was there it didn’t seem like anything had been added in the last year or so,

*** Definitely been a while. The whole piercing thing is rather a bore these days. Japanese sword fighting is wetting my panties lately.   I’m still recovering from a virus infection and lost a lot of jpg files(14,000). Reformated my computer and insulted XP Pro. Lost a lot of stuff that wasn’t backed up. Add to that server problems and you have lost files.

*** Dumbass. Hah. And the XP typo? NOW you got you some security "issues" my friend. Midwestern smarts at work, huh? There is a 360 degree of the studio main areas and there is a picture of my work space but I need to get around to finishing the tour page. I forgot about that, thanks for remiding me.

*** Dude, I see a lotta tattoo flash crap and neon. Not one pic of your station. Not one safety article. Nothing of any worth. If it will make you happy Keith I’ll add a picture of the Autoclave. Do you want the model # too?

*** Yes please. And the Spore test from this month. There is a number of pictures of my work through out the site. I’ve thought of adding a simple thumbnail gallery of all of it but haven’t gotten around to it yet. That and I need to start remembering to take pictures.

*** Midwestern smarts at work again, huh? — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9 — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

Response:

opined: Keith if you want to see all that tour stuff go to…

*** Your IA skills suck. WHERE IS YOUR STATION? "Paul of the band SlipKnot is a stock holder" "Stock?" You issued stock? You are so full of shit. — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9 — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

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Fuck New York. I set here for a few minutes and thought about what good has come out of NYC. Other then a few good friends I’ve made over the years, The Ramones and The New York Dolls, I couldn’t think of one single thing.

oh my god.  dude.  as a third-generation los angeles native who has never been to new york city i have no reason to defend it, but this just takes the cake for ignorance. is your head, like, totally empty?   — Queenie mhm27×16 i’m not a valley girl but i play one on tv

Response:

The majority of people wearing work got it for trendy reasons.

my first tattoo falls into this category.   "Looks cool" is a valid reason in my book, btw.

and my second tattoo falls into this category.  it doesn’t have any special significance or meaning, it’s just a design that pleased my eye and that continues to please me when i catch a glimpse of it (which is rarely since it’s on my back). the pair of them would have gotten me laid at the muffler shop today too, if the guy hadn’t turned out to be married.   — Queenie mhm27×16

Response:

KA And I like tight white underwear, too. Especially KA now that I am all dark and tanned and shit.         you are so not allowed to wear those in my apartment.         or anywhere near me.         gross. lish                                                  "nobody knows you 36.9% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

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Question:

hey everyone im new to the list,  but i just made my own website, check it out, i think it’s pretty cool,   hit me back with some critism if ya want…. probably to my email address though.    www.angelfire.com/darkside/lilmike

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hey everyone im new to the list,  but i just made my own website, check it out, i think it’s pretty cool,   hit me back with some critism if ya want…. probably to my email address though.    www.angelfire.com/darkside/lilmike

Pssssssssssst. Welcome to rec.arts.bodyart. If you are new or have questions, please visit these sites BEFORE you post your question here. I. Body-art FAQs (frequently asked questions and answers)   A. Piercing FAQ: info on procedure, healing, jewelry, professionals, &c.      http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bodyart/piercing-faq/   B. Tattoo FAQ: info on procedure, care, removal, &c.      http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bodyart/tattoo-faq/ II. Experiences and Photos:   A. BME (Body Modification E-zine), including experiences, pictures,      body-art related articles:      http://www.bmezine.com III. R.A.B.-related information:   A. The rec.arts.bodyart survival guide:      http://www.mutilation.net/yttrx/rabsurv   B. The Welcome and Netiquette FAQ, and RAB Charter:      http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bodyart/netiquette/   C. RAB sites:      1. The RABbit Hole: the official site of RAB, with links to the         faqs, munches, &c.         http://www.rabbithole.org/      2. The Slug Fest: the "backstage" view of RAB         http://www.ambient.on.ca/spako/   D. Frequently recommended resources:      1. The "Almost Complete Body Piercing Links List", with links to         piercing-related sites organized by category:         http://www.piercinglinks.com/frames.html IV. WWW and USENET resources:   A. Dejanews, a searchable archive of usenet posts:      http://groups.google.com    http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?group=rec.arts.bodyart

  B. WWW search engines (many exist, these are two):      http://www.altavista.com      http://www.yahoo.com The answer to almost any question related to bodyart can be found in either the FAQs or on BME; others are readily answered with a quick DejaNews or web search.  We welcome all inquiries beyond the scope of these on-line resources; however, if you cannot be bothered to look for the answer yourself, please do not expect us to be bothered to find it for you. With that said, Welcome! And enjoy your time on r.a.b!

Response:

hey everyone im new to the list,  but i just made my own website, check it out, i think it’s pretty cool,   hit me back with some critism if ya want….

*Beware of what you wish for. You’re likely to get more than you bargained for…especially at RAB Corine — Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.             — Bertolt Brecht, The Mother, 1932

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yeah i figured that out, but hey what do i care, im the one making the cash, while these kats sit around reading newsgroup posts about piercings – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -*Beware of what you wish for. You’re likely to get more than you bargained for…especially at RAB

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yeah i figured that out, but hey what do i care, im the one making the cash,

Join the club…

Response:

yeah i figured that out, but hey what do i care, im the one making the cash,

Really now? Oh well. At least, when *my* work sucks, I can just throw it away and start over. Nian

Response:

yeah i figured that out, but hey what do i care, im the one making the cash, while these kats sit around reading newsgroup posts about piercings

i make more "cash" than you do, AND get to read newsgroup posts. — I’m in it for the whole egocentrical koala

Response:

yeah i figured that out, but hey what do i care, im the one making the cash, while these kats sit around reading newsgroup posts about piercings

I wonder if you know that angelfire does not allow commercial websites. —–. — Theres a hole in the world like a great black pit and its filled with people who are filled with shit and the vermin of the world inhabit it

Response:

hey everyone im new to the list,  but i just made my own website, check it out, i think it’s pretty cool,   hit me back with some critism if ya want….

Eh, okay, if you want. Seriously lacking content. I’m assuming that will change at some point. From a design point of view…I think it could use some improvement as well. There is no real flow or consistency to the design. I understand it’s your first go at a web page, and if you continue to work on it, it will probably get better. But, if I was a potential client (especially for tattooing) and you sent me to look at your page (and I knew you had designed it), I would be a little hesitant to get work done by you. I mean, if the page is supposed to represent an element of your creative/design ability, I wouldn’t be too enthused about getting work from you. Yes, I know, tattoo work and graphic/web design or two completely different arenas. But, the web design still reflects on your overall design ability, or at least the as a representation of that ability. I think you have too many different backgrounds. The use of frames is not really necessary and I think it takes away from the overall design. I think the Flash navigation menu is a bit cheesy (and I love Flash). But, if all you were trying to create was a very quick and dirty little ditty about yourself and some of your work, then it’s fine. As for the tattoo work…First let me say that I’m not a tattoo artist. So, take my comments with however big a grain of salt you like. But, I personally would not get tattooed by you. While it certainly isn’t the worst work I’ve ever seen, and perhaps is better than a lot I’ve seen, it’s not something I would have on my better. Perhaps it’s just poor picture quality, but the work appears fairly flat. Very little use of shading to give any sense of depth to what is going on. The color, while fairly solid, still comes across as kind of muted and uninspired. But again, I have a hard time drawing a good-looking stick figure. probably to my email address though.

Nope. You posted it in the newsgroup. You get a response in the newsgroup. Derek

Response:

yeah i figured that out, but hey what do i care, im the one making the cash, while these kats sit around reading newsgroup posts about piercings

Heh. As a matter of policy, I don’t visit angelfire web sites. Too annoying.  Same for geocities and tripod. — Stan Schwarz                | Extreme sports…offer "some kind of physical http://cosmo.pasadena.ca.us | other open-source operating systems."                             |           -Mikki Halpin, _The Geek Handbook_

Response:

hey everyone im new to the list,  but i just made my own website, check it out, i think it’s pretty cool,   hit me back with some critism if ya want….

OK, here it is… 1) 25% of a screen taken up by a flash menu? At least you don’t know enough to make it non-scalable. 2) Page under construction when you go to "Certifications"? That scares me a bit. 3) Piercing Care link doesn’t work 4) Same with tattoo care 5) It’s on Angelfire By the way, those are all bad points. Pauly (I wouldn’t have even bothered uploading it)

Response:

hey everyone im new to the list,  but i just made my own website, check it out, i think it’s pretty cool,   hit me back with some critism if ya want…. probably to my email address though.    www.angelfire.com/darkside/lilmike

Nice page, really helpful. I especially like the sage advice in the piercing care section. — Lou K. exit 7

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey everyone im new to the list,  but i just made my own website, check it out, i think it’s pretty cool,   hit me back with some critism if ya want…. OK, here it is… 1) 25% of a screen taken up by a flash menu? At least you don’t know enough to make it non-scalable. 2) Page under construction when you go to "Certifications"? That scares me a bit. 3) Piercing Care link doesn’t work 4) Same with tattoo care 5) It’s on Angelfire By the way, those are all bad points.

also, some of the gallery thumbnails are linked to the wrong picture or no picture at all, and the ‘full size images’ are out of proportion, at least in my browser. —Angie a.k.a. dstrss "On second thought, I think I am more crazy than my goat." – Remedios Varo

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hey everyone im new to the list,  but i just made my own website, check it out, i think it’s pretty cool,   hit me back with some critism if ya want….

Mike, Portfolio:  You have your "cross" thumbnail linked to your butterfly tattoo image.   Also the one thumbnail/image doesn’t load at all (for me). Experience:  Message, "PAGE UNDER CONTRUCTION" Certifications:  Message, "PAGE UNDER CONSTRUCTION" Piercing Care:  Goofball message, "Apparently, this page is not compatible with any browsers.  Actually, we couldn’t find the page you requested. Please check the URL." Tattoo Care:  *Nothing* loads here (for me anyway). Links:  Thanks for the three _music_ links.  P’shaw. Anyway, elsewhere in this thread you state that you’re "making the cash" while others are simply wasting their time in this newsgroup. It’s never smart, imo, to piss on potential customers. Your site stinks.  And your attitude could use some improvement as well. Good luck. — Curt

Response:

thanks for hitting me back, ill work on all that – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -rom a design point of view…I think it could use some improvement as well. There is no real flow or

Response:

hey sorry i forgot to mention, that my site is no where near complete,  and  i know nothing about graphic design, and almost nothing about web design,  so with all that in mind hopefully it will turn out ok, as for my comment  i meant that only to the cool kid with the "shut up fuck" reply to my answer to someones question about a piercing

Response:

hey sorry i forgot to mention, that my site is no where near complete,  

*** Then you shouldn’t have posted the URL, asshole. i know nothing about graphic design,

*** No shit? and almost nothing about web design,

*** "almost"? No. You know nothing. www.webmonkey.com. with all that in mind hopefully it will turn out ok,

*** It won’t. Because yer a dumbass. But you did get some damn good advice here. as for my comment  i meant that only to the cool kid with the "shut up fuck" reply to my answer to someones question about a piercing

*** Shut the fuck up. — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9 — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

Response:

"KAi TeA BeE"  wrote … with all that in mind hopefully it will turn out ok, as for my comment  i meant that only to the cool kid with the "shut up fuck" reply to my answer to someones question about a piercing

who are you & where do you "pierce & tattoo"?

Response:

Question:

Why is it Pentax never considered as a good camera equipment?  Is it not good? For 500 usd you can have the top end 35mm SLR from Pentax (PZ-1p) Are the lenses not good enough, they cost almost the same. Just wondering… Before you buy.

Response:

Pentax’s marketing is, if anything, worse than Minolta’s.  Difficult to believe, but true.  Their AF SLRs are not quite up to spec in comparison with Nikon/Canon/Minolta, but very capable nonetheless. Their lenses are great – in fact, I keep an MX (manual focus Pentax) around for nightime photography, since it seems to suffer less from flare than some of my Maxxum stuff. If Pentax has the lenses you need, and you like the body, there’s no reason not to buy it. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why is it Pentax never considered as a good camera equipment?  Is it not good? For 500 usd you can have the top end 35mm SLR from Pentax (PZ-1p) Are the lenses not good enough, they cost almost the same. Just wondering… Before you buy.

Response:

I think if you read this NG regualarly, you will find that there are MANY Pentax fans here.  I do not have persoal experience with it, but Pentax has a definite following–and apparently for good reason. -Mark Morgan

Response:

Pentax doesn’t make a Photo Journalist (PJ) body. They used to–the LX.   You can still get it "gray" from Japan.   Probably the best meter sensor available, even by today’s standards. But that’s only a small portion of what "professional" encompasses. The PZ-1p, ZX-5n, and ZX-7 are technically spectacular. The ZX-M and ZX-5n have the best user interface around. The new lenses from ALL the manufacturers are outstanding.   Coatings and resolutions have improved so much over the   past decade that lens choice is insignificant.  (There are   both dogs and spectacular specimens from each company.) Also, Canon, Minolta, Olympus, and Nikon don’t make medium format   systems.  That’s where Pentax approaches another pro segment that   the competitors avoid.  (Although Fuji and Nikon make very fine   large format lenses.) I use a ZX-M and thoroughly enjoy it.  Great system.  Pracitcal design. Anyone who says Pentax doesn’t have a PJ camera may be correct.   But to say they don’t make excellent equipment is just exhibiting   silliness. — *** Life’s Priorities: #1 When you are willing to stand up and say "I believe…" then you begin to understand freedom. #2 Alcohol and math don’t mix.  Don’t drink & derive. #3 A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. *** Before you buy.

Response:

I have a pentax ZX-M and ME super I love both camera bodys and both take very good pictures.  I have a close friend that uses a Pentax MX body and he loves the camera.  I feel that Pentax is just as good as any Nikon/Canon/Minolta.  My only problem with the current line of Pentax camera bodys is no double exposer feature execpt on the ZX-7 and PZ-1p. Jpq – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pentax’s marketing is, if anything, worse than Minolta’s.  Difficult to believe, but true.  Their AF SLRs are not quite up to spec in comparison with Nikon/Canon/Minolta, but very capable nonetheless. Their lenses are great – in fact, I keep an MX (manual focus Pentax) around for nightime photography, since it seems to suffer less from flare than some of my Maxxum stuff. If Pentax has the lenses you need, and you like the body, there’s no reason not to buy it. Mike Why is it Pentax never considered as a good camera equipment?  Is it not good? For 500 usd you can have the top end 35mm SLR from Pentax (PZ-1p) Are the lenses not good enough, they cost almost the same. Just wondering… Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Pentax is fine, in some ways better than the others. For example, my Pentax ZX-5n matrix metering gives me much better results than my EOS-3. My old but reliable Pentax LX is still my favorite camera. All the major brands will allow you to take excellent photographs, it’s not really the equipment, it’s the photographer.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why is it Pentax never considered as a good camera equipment?  Is it not good? For 500 usd you can have the top end 35mm SLR from Pentax (PZ-1p) Are the lenses not good enough, they cost almost the same. Just wondering… Before you buy.

Response:

I just have trouble taking a camera seriously that has a smiley face icon on its control dial. (ZX-7)

Nevertheless it is a great mid-range consumer SLR.  If you like a more traditional interface get a ZX-5n.

Response:

Why is it Pentax never considered as a good camera equipment?  Is it not good? For 500 usd you can have the top end 35mm SLR from Pentax (PZ-1p) Are the lenses not good enough, they cost almost the same. Just wondering…

Pentax has great optics.  It also makes some very nice cameras ranging from entry level to high-end consumer to pro.  Want to know what the largest difference between manufacturers is?  National advertising campaigns

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Because people are stupid. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just have trouble taking a camera seriously that has a smiley face icon on its control dial. (ZX-7) Skip Why is it Pentax never considered as a good camera equipment?  Is it not good? For 500 usd you can have the top end 35mm SLR from Pentax (PZ-1p) Are the lenses not good enough, they cost almost the same. Just wondering… Before you buy. — Shadowcatcher Imagery http://members.tripod.com/~shadowcatcherimagery/index.htm

Response:

I agree with you on all but one point: Lens Coatings and resolutions. Multicoatings have been available from since the early seventies. Single focal length lenses have not really improved for several decades – except the coatings. I would rather have a zoom that was made in the 80’s because many of the AF ones now are made just terrible. Just wiggle the front of the Nikon zoom 35-80 (cheap one). Nikon had the another 35-80 plastic zoom in the mid 90s that was actually very well made and had a metal lensmount. They just keep getting worse. I will agree that the newer longer range zoom lenses are better. JCR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pentax doesn’t make a Photo Journalist (PJ) body. They used to–the LX.  You can still get it "gray" from Japan.  Probably the best meter sensor available, even by today’s standards. But that’s only a small portion of what "professional" encompasses. The PZ-1p, ZX-5n, and ZX-7 are technically spectacular. The ZX-M and ZX-5n have the best user interface around. The new lenses from ALL the manufacturers are outstanding.  Coatings and resolutions have improved so much over the  past decade that lens choice is insignificant.  (There are  both dogs and spectacular specimens from each company.) Also, Canon, Minolta, Olympus, and Nikon don’t make medium format  systems.  That’s where Pentax approaches another pro segment that  the competitors avoid.  (Although Fuji and Nikon make very fine  large format lenses.) I use a ZX-M and thoroughly enjoy it.  Great system.  Pracitcal design. Anyone who says Pentax doesn’t have a PJ camera may be correct.  But to say they don’t make excellent equipment is just exhibiting  silliness. — *** Life’s Priorities: #1 When you are willing to stand up and say "I believe…" then you begin to understand freedom. #2 Alcohol and math don’t mix.  Don’t drink & derive. #3 A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. *** Before you buy.

Response:

I just have trouble taking a camera seriously that has a smiley face icon on its control dial. (ZX-7) Skip Why is it Pentax never considered as a good camera equipment?  Is it not good? For 500 usd you can have the top end 35mm SLR from Pentax (PZ-1p) Are the lenses not good enough, they cost almost the same. Just wondering… Before you buy.

– Shadowcatcher Imagery http://members.tripod.com/~shadowcatcherimagery/index.htm

Response:

Just look at Pentax as one heck of a good deal. The PZ1P is quite a camera for the money. GQR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why is it Pentax never considered as a good camera equipment?  Is it not good? For 500 usd you can have the top end 35mm SLR from Pentax (PZ-1p) Are the lenses not good enough, they cost almost the same. Just wondering… Before you buy.

Response:

Give the PZ-1p a try. You won’t regret it. Andrea

Response:

Give the PZ-1p a try.

Be very careful handling the PZ-1p, it’s a very difficult camera to put down once you’ve held it. I picked the Z-1 up once and was instantly hooked, everything just sits right for my hands. With the extra gripstrap it really is amazing. You won’t regret it.

No, but your spouse or bank manager might — John Preston, Lancs, UK.

Response:

I don’t think that the product has stayed static. There is an optical design difference between Pentax’ "M" and "A" lenses.  Resolution is provided by the glass and contrast enhanced by the coatings. Example:  "M" 50/1.4 — decent resolution, notably soft on contrast              (late 70s vintage)           "A" 50/1.4 — improved resolution, much better contrast              (late 80s vintage)           "FA" 50/1.4 — even better resolution, great contrast              (90s vintage) Check Boz’ page for general info on optical changes over time. — *** Life’s Priorities: #1 When you are willing to stand up and say "I believe…" then you begin to understand freedom. #2 Alcohol and math don’t mix.  Don’t drink & derive. #3 A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. *** Before you buy.

Response:

Agreed, Pentax, are great cameras. You have to remember, photogs get alot of there satisfaction from the equipment they own. Like owning a BMW car. A Chevy is just as capable of getting you from  A to B, but the yuppy appeal isn’t there! If you know what you are doing, and love your art, you can get just as fantastic results from a Pentax. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Why is it Pentax never considered as a good camera equipment?  Is it not good? For 500 usd you can have the top end 35mm SLR from Pentax (PZ-1p) Are the lenses not good enough, they cost almost the same. Just wondering… Before you buy.

Pentax is every bit as good as the other brands, particularly their lenses.  Pentax is simply the best camera value out there. The best thing about the company is the respect they show their users by engineering successive generations of their products to work with their older products.  There isn’t much obsolescence. Example: 1960s vintage manual focus Asahi Takumar lens can be used on a brand new Pentax AF camera body with a cheap adaptor (obviously no AF, but the thing still meters).  Moving the other way, a brand new AF lens will work (in manual focus) on a 25 year old K-mount Pentax camera. Try that with any other camera brand. Another example: The 67ii medium format camera accepts many of the accessories (and all of the lenses) for the 67 camera. The only exception I know of is the bottom-of-the-barrel MZ-50 (and its replacment MZ-30). Pentax also makes the best value (price and quality considered) cameras in the P&S segment of the market. Before you buy.

Response:

The best thing about the company is the respect they show their users by engineering successive generations of their products to work with their older products.  There isn’t much obsolescence. Example: 1960s vintage manual focus Asahi Takumar lens can be used on a brand new Pentax AF camera body with a cheap adaptor (obviously no AF, but the thing still meters).  Moving the other way, a brand new AF lens will work (in manual focus) on a 25 year old K-mount Pentax camera. Try that with any other camera brand.

Uh, how about Nikon? They have not changed their basic mount since 1959. There are some issues concerning meter coupling but nothing as significant as the Pentax’s change from screw to bayonet mount (which they needed to do, of course) . . . the point is well taken regarding Pentax however. They have shown a commitment to their customers. I agree with some of the other posters in that marketing is one reason Pentax is not one of the first brands that come to mind. On the other hand, I don’t think Pentax has really made an effort to appeal to the serious user. They just don’t seem to have the depth of system cabability that some other lines have. Still, all and all, I’d say they’re a very good option and deserve more attention.

Response:

Why is it Pentax never considered as a good camera equipment?  Is it not good? For 500 usd you can have the top end 35mm SLR from Pentax (PZ-1p)

As a professional photographer,  my choice of equipment is influenced by considerations that have nothing to do with camera or lens quality.  For reasons including the availability of repair facilities and rentals in my area, I use Nikon.  In the past I have used Pentax and found it of excellent quality. Are the lenses not good enough, they cost almost the same.

Some of my Pentax lenses were better than their Nikon counterparts.  All were competitive with anyone else’s best, IMHO Just wondering…

Wonder no more!  If you love your Pentax. it will love you back.

Response:

Pentax’s marketing is, if anything, worse than Minolta’s.  Difficult to believe, but true.  Their AF SLRs are not quite up to spec in comparison with Nikon/Canon/Minolta, but very capable nonetheless.

Except that the Pentax 5N has DOF (depth of field) preview, unlike the similarly lightweight Minolta HTsi+/XTsi/505si. Pentax makes a 28-70 f4 lens that’s not bad, and would work well with the 5N body.  However Minolta’s 24-50 f4 is quite a bit better. One relatively unknown fact is that Pentax makes the best long zoom in the industry, a 250-600 f5.6 that sells for only about $7000 new! Nikon and Canon don’t have anything that comes close in terms of sharpness, convenience, and price.  I hope John Francis won’t mind my posting this URL, with pictures of the San Diege Wild Animal Park taken with his 250-600:   http://reality.sgi.com/jfrancis/gallery/sdwap.html The last picture in the gallery shows John with his lens and PZ-1p.

Response:

I just have trouble taking a camera seriously that has a smiley face icon on its control dial. (ZX-7) Skip — Shadowcatcher Imagery http://members.tripod.com/~shadowcatcherimagery/index.htm

Hmmm. Home shopper to real estate agent: "It’s a terrific home, just what we’re looking for, great neighborhood and the price is right. But gee, I dunno. That S-curve walkway to the front door is kinda hokey. Never wanted one of those. We’ll keep looking." or He: "Doris, you know I love you with all my heart. You are the light of my life, the wind in my sails. When you come into the room, my heart sings. In so many ways you make life worth living." She: "Yes?" He: "But…" She: "But what?" He: "But I simply cannot commit to a relationship with someone who has a butterfly tattoo on her butt. Sorry." Smiley face aversion? Sheesh. —  S.W. Anderson  "Courage consists not in hazarding without fear,  but in being resolutely minded in a just cause."   — Edward Young

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why is it Pentax never considered as a good camera equipment?  Is it not good? For 500 usd you can have the top end 35mm SLR from Pentax (PZ- 1p) As a professional photographer,  my choice of equipment is influenced by considerations that have nothing to do with camera or lens quality.  For reasons including the availability of repair facilities and rentals in my area, I use Nikon.  In the past I have used Pentax and found it of excellent quality. Are the lenses not good enough, they cost almost the same. Some of my Pentax lenses were better than their Nikon

counterparts.  All were competitive with anyone else’s best, IMHO Just wondering… Wonder no more!  If you love your Pentax. it will love you back.

VERY well said!!!! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I agree with some of the other posters in that marketing is one reason Pentax is not one of the first brands that come to mind. On the other hand, I don’t think Pentax has really made an effort to appeal to the serious user. They just don’t seem to have the depth of system cabability that some other lines have. Still, all and all, I’d say they’re a very good option and deserve more attention.

This is about to change. Theres a all-metal fully pro, super-durable, kick-ass AF camera coming from Pentax along with new lenses. It will reach the shops early next year. Expect more firm info to start leaking in the fall. The camera is now beyond the rumor stage. Its reality. Before you buy.

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Hey, Paal.  Can you get us a bootleg photo of it? Collin — *** Life’s Priorities: #1 When you are willing to stand up and say "I believe…" then you begin to understand freedom. #2 Alcohol and math don’t mix.  Don’t drink & derive. #3 A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. *** Before you buy.

Response:

The reason pros do not use Pentax is because it does not have the full line of lenses needed for nature photography.  They are missing longer fast telephotos (500 mm f4, 400 mm f2.8, etc.), longer macro (180 – 200 mm)and super wide angles (14,16,18 mm).  If they make these, they do not show in the ads. Also, because they make fewer of the top of the line lenses, they tend to be very expensive(80-200 mm f2.8 =$1899) * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

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Question:

Sorry, I guess we need the url www.vanishingtattoo.com

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We are preparing a broadcast documentary on the disappearing traditions of tribal tattooing. We all know the designs and styles of "tribal" tattoos are at an all time popular high. Yet, the old ways are dieing off with the old masters. Is it possible to still get an authentic tattoo? This is what the series (or show – format has not been set) will be about. We will follow Vancouver tattoo artist Thomas Lockhart around the world in search of this "last authentic tattoo". We have a submissions page where you can join in with suggestions for a chapter as to where Thomas may travel in this search. We also have 5 different tattoo galleries, for those that like to look. To test all the trivia floating around in your heads, we have a tattoo trivia quiz. Come by and have a look. Comments? Do you think there is an audience for this project? I know this NG will probably say yes, but what about a general audience? Any thought would be much appreciated. Thanx

Response:

www.vanishingtattoo.com

the site and the idea arent that bad at all, however, the whole "last authentic tattoo" hype is enough to annoy me real quick to the point of tuning out. The little butterfly tattoo I was shown just last night on the hip of an otherwise unmarked or pierced sorority pledge is just as much an authentic tattoo as a full hand done pe’a (sp?).  Sure, they have different backgrounds, represent different committments, and vary greatly in form and experience but they will both be there for life.  If anything the young western girl had it worse because she lacks the built in support of her society and culture – her mom won’t be half as pleased as the mother of a boy who has become a man through his three day ritual tattooing. I’m already laughing at the responses which will inevitably come from this post Erik Sprague aka Snakeboy -< http://members.aol.com/spidergod5/index.html

Response:

Sorry, I guess we need the url www.vanishingtattoo.com

not a bad concept but unfortunately its far to easy to answer……although the "traditional cultural" tattooing practices are becoming a bit lack luster in the face of modern styles there are a good many still about…..in a one day trip in Thailand you can go have a monk tattoo you ……the Moari youth are beginning to reclaim their heritage Moko tattoos…..There are cats like Keanu Nuenz trying o revitalize some of the traditional Island style stuff , him and several others in the TaTu alliance deal who agree or disagree with them they are atleast doing something…..Leo Zulueta has forever persevered atleast the Borneo designs if not the meaning ……I guess my point is shouldn’t it be a search for the remnant of lost cultures not lost tattoos…..isn’t that what is being lost or left behind not the tattooing? (((yes i have probably made errors in some of the statments but you get the point atleast i hope))) R.Knox…..aka RevPhule How patient is a patient man before He becomes a fool?

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some what in line with this discussion, Rick Cosmo is going to tattoo a piece on me here in Indy in february at "old school" using the traditional hammer/rake method. Already getting fired up about it. Had Japanese trad method a few years ago, so had to go for the samoan. Ray

Sorry, I guess we need the url www.vanishingtattoo.com not a bad concept but unfortunately its far to easy to

answer……although – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the "traditional cultural" tattooing practices are becoming a bit lack luster in the face of modern styles

Response:

some what in line with this discussion, Rick Cosmo is going to tattoo a

piece on me here in Indy in february at "old school" using the traditional hammer/rake method. kewl…..owww but kewl….. Had Japanese trad method a few years ago, so had to go for the samoan

damn I want a piece of traditional oriental…but havent had the opp yet….. R.Knox…..aka RevPhule How patient is a patient man before He becomes a fool?.

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kewl…..owww but kewl….. damn I want a piece of traditional oriental…but havent had the opp yet…..

The japanese trad was quite an experience, If I had had more done I would have slept through it. Very relaxing. Two kanji only and very nearly went to sleep. VERY COOL experience. I have the feeling though that the Samoan will be WAY different Ray — TATTOO=stained glass on my soul Contact me for your shop insurance needs http://home.att.net/~tat-ins/

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The japanese trad was quite an experience, If I had had more done I would have slept through it. Very relaxing. Two kanji only and very nearly went to sleep. VERY COOL experience. I have the feeling though that the Samoan will be WAY different Ray

I stood in awe last year at Inkslingers and watched Horoshiyi(SP?)…tattoo for 2 hours solid….I was AMAZED…..man he is incredible and it didn’t look that painful…..Somoan however…… well a friend in L.A. had his done traditional….after 7 hours of ink they walked him out to the ocean to clean it…..(scary )…then after three days of his leg being so swollen he couldn’t walk….it settled down and you know the scary thing……its some of the most solid smooth black work I have ever seen…… R.Knox…..aka RevPhule How patient is a patient man before He becomes a fool?

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they walked him out to the ocean to clean it…..(scary )…then after three days of his leg being so swollen he couldn’t walk

Thats right!! leave me with POSITIVE thoughts to worry about for the next 4 months<G Ray — TATTOO=stained glass on my soul Contact me for your shop insurance needs http://home.att.net/~tat-ins/

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Question:

buttrfly is sad because big artists don’t do little tattoos.  I called Outer Limits and Kari Barba is on vacation right now, but Yvonne there said that she probably wouldn’t do my butterfly tattoo because she has a three hour minimum.  :(  It isn’t like little tats can’t be important too.  Just not worthwhile to the big names, I guess.  Sorry to be grumpy, but I *just* got off the phone and I’m all disappointed.  I don’t understand — why doesn’t everyone just do exactly what *I* want them to do??   <g — -buttrfly (the sad and grumpy) www.bmeworld.com/buttrfly ~the moment i jumped off of it      was the moment i touched down~

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buttrfly is sad because big artists don’t do little tattoos.  I called Outer Limits and Kari Barba is on vacation right now, but Yvonne there said that she probably wouldn’t do my butterfly tattoo because she has a three hour minimum.  :(  It isn’t like little tats can’t be important too.  Just not worthwhile to the big names, I guess.  Sorry to be grumpy, but I *just* got off the phone and I’m all disappointed.  I don’t understand — why doesn’t everyone just do exactly what *I* want them to do??   <g

*Sorry to hear about that little buttrfly I’m going there tonight to change my jewelry ( and maybe indulge myself with something new )…I’ll start the discussion about reasons why to refuse small works for big artists  :) Corine — "For four-fifths of our history, our planet was populated by pond scum."                       — J.W. Schopf to reply switch JustKermit for frog-n-clog at mindspring

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I’ll start the discussion about reasons why to refuse small works for big artists  :) *** Because after YEARS of paying dues, doing tattoos like butterflys just isn’t exciting. THAT’S a valid reason.

*perhaps….it still is discriminatory. You can yammer all you want about the meaning behind the butterfly (rebirth, transformation), but I bet with a LITTLE immagination, you could come up with a MUCH more creative, meaningful tattoo. Oh yeah, that, and the fact that the butterfly is the single most requested tattoo for woman. *yawn*

*So? Anyone who wants one should be able to get one….by a real artist, not a scratcher because an artist thinks it’s stupid or not interesting enough. Do you refuse to do navels or toungues?….Yawn! the most selled piercings the reason to do them: it makes people happy and it pays the rent. Kari is one of the most talented artists in the world, you are lucky to be close enough to just walk in. Honor her talent and creativity with using your imagination.

*I’m very fortunate to live quite near. You can do better than a butterfly.

*Even if someone could do better, why should they want that ??? I’ve been raised with a phrase:" Il n’y a pas mieux que ce qui plait." They’re goes nothing above what you like…. It’s just me bitching: One should be able to get what he/she likes unregarding how interesting that is. Corine, not wanting a butterfly but always ready to advocate for it. "For four-fifths of our history, our planet was populated by pond scum."                       — J.W. Schopf to reply switch JustKermit for frog-n-clog at mindspring

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I’m not trying to bitch that she won’t do it, I’m just disappointed.  I was hoping that Kari might want to continue the collection that I’m hoping to build into a single piece over the course of my life as I travel.  Since I’ll be down in Irvine for a short while at the end of this month, I was hoping I could get a taxi and go all the hell out of my way to get her to do it.  That’s fine, I’m still going to go to Outer Limits, because I’m searching for an artist to do a couple of larger pieces, and Kari certainly has done some impressive work.  What a good chance to get to meet her and see how she works, or at least check out more of her portfolio.  Looks like there are plenty of good artist there.  I was not surprised that they said she probably wouldn’t do it.  I just find it disappointing to look ahead to the rest of my life and this particular project and know that I will probably never get any of my favorite artists to work on it.  But that’s OK – I’m not turning back now, no matter how boring it is.  Gosh darn it. — -buttrfly www.bmeworld.com/buttrfly ~the moment i jumped off of it      was the moment i touched down~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll start the discussion about reasons why to refuse small works for big artists  :) *** Because after YEARS of paying dues, doing tattoos like butterflys just isn’t exciting. THAT’S a valid reason. You can yammer all you want about the meaning behind the butterfly (rebirth, transformation), but I bet with a LITTLE immagination, you could come up with a MUCH more creative, meaningful tattoo. Oh yeah, that, and the fact that the butterfly is the single most requested tattoo for woman. *yawn* Kari is one of the most talented artists in the world, you are lucky to be close enough to just walk in. Honor her talent and creativity with using your imagination. You can do better than a butterfly. — k e i t h   a l e x a n d e r w w w . n o o t r o p e . n e t www.modernamerican.com a p p   n y c – e n d   t r a n s m i s s i o n –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ***tattoos like butterflys just isn’t exciting. THAT’S a valid reason. *perhaps….it still is discriminatory. *** It is not. It’s can be a boring tattoo. Done small, that is. *So? Anyone who wants one should be able to get one….by a real artist, not a scratcher because an artist thinks it’s stupid or not interesting enough. *** There are PLENTY of artists, not scratchers, who will do it. An artist of Kari’s stature has EVERY right to refuse to do ANYTHING she wants. ANY artist has that right. Must they do a KKK tattoo? Is THAT discriminatory if they refuse? Do you refuse to do navels or toungues?….Yawn! the most selled piercings *** Most selled? Errr. Anyway, the truth? I enjoy giving nice people anything they want. But I’ll tell you… I refuse to do MANY piercings on people who come into the shop saying things that offend me. Like, the people who look at photos and say *That’s fucking gross, Those people are sick…*. THOSE people are lucky to just be told to leave. Again, an artist can say no to ANYTHING. And a boring, small tattoo is something worth saying no to. Notice, I am not saying her motivation is wrong, I am saying you can come up with a better design. If she even has a deeper motivation. the reason to do them: it makes people happy and it pays the rent. *** The reason to not do them: It make the artist sad and somethings are more important than money. *Even if someone could do better, why should they want that ??? I’ve been raised with a phrase:" Il n’y a pas mieux que ce qui plait." They’re goes nothing above what you like…. *** French? I’ll let that slide. Or.. turning it around… The artist dosen’t like it… they don’t do it. Gee, you were right. It’s just me bitching: One should be able to get what he/she likes unregarding how interesting that is. *** Unregarding? Err… One SHOULD be able to get NO thing. Life is not always fair and you can’t always get what you want. But she CAN get what she wants. Just not there, perhaps. Corine, not wanting a butterfly but always ready to advocate for it. *** Learn to choose your battles, Corrine.

*I think Kari barba or any artist has every right to refuse to do any work they don’t feel like to do. A client comes with a question and isn’t in a position to demand….he/she can ask nicely. I don’t refute the fact it is/can be very boring. Scenario 2: butterfly tattoo buyer goes into shop: "HI! it’s me, I admire you so much that I’d love to have a butterfly done by you, I know it’s boring or may not be big enough..still it matters much to me: Would you be prepared to give me advice of what it would take if I were to be tattooed by you? requirements? ( hours , how big, etc…) If you really aren’t up to it, who would you recommend to help me get a nice butterfly? " I think any butterfly lover with social skills would get an answer. Corine — "For four-fifths of our history, our planet was populated by pond scum."                       — J.W. Schopf to reply switch JustKermit for frog-n-clog at mindspring

Response:

P.S.  I know that some artist may not *want* their work to be a big conglomerate with other artists stuff, and that’s fine, too.  I can understand not wanting to be listed under "various artists."  :) — -buttrfly www.bmeworld.com/buttrfly ~the moment i jumped off of it      was the moment i touched down~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not trying to bitch that she won’t do it, I’m just disappointed.  I was hoping that Kari might want to continue the collection that I’m hoping to build into a single piece over the course of my life as I travel.  Since I’ll be down in Irvine for a short while at the end of this month, I was hoping I could get a taxi and go all the hell out of my way to get her to do it.  That’s fine, I’m still going to go to Outer Limits, because I’m searching for an artist to do a couple of larger pieces, and Kari certainly has done some impressive work.  What a good chance to get to meet her and see how she works, or at least check out more of her portfolio.  Looks like there are plenty of good artist there.  I was not surprised that they said she probably wouldn’t do it.  I just find it disappointing to look ahead to the rest of my life and this particular project and know that I will probably never get any of my favorite artists to work on it.  But that’s OK – I’m not turning back now, no matter how boring it is.  Gosh darn it. — -buttrfly www.bmeworld.com/buttrfly ~the moment i jumped off of it     was the moment i touched down~ I’ll start the discussion about reasons why to refuse small works for big artists  :) *** Because after YEARS of paying dues, doing tattoos like butterflys just isn’t exciting. THAT’S a valid reason. You can yammer all you want about the meaning behind the butterfly (rebirth, transformation), but I bet with a LITTLE immagination, you could come up with a MUCH more creative, meaningful tattoo. Oh yeah, that, and the fact that the butterfly is the single most requested tattoo for woman. *yawn* Kari is one of the most talented artists in the world, you are lucky to be close enough to just walk in. Honor her talent and creativity with using your imagination. You can do better than a butterfly. — k e i t h   a l e x a n d e r w w w . n o o t r o p e . n e t www.modernamerican.com a p p   n y c – e n d   t r a n s m i s s i o n –

Response:

She didn’t say she wouldn’t do it.  She said you’d have to pay for three hours.  Big difference.  How badly do you want to have your tattoo done by a world-class artist?

Hrm.  I didn’t really think of it being in terms of *paying* for three hours.  Hmm.  Yvonne said I should call back and talk to her when she’s there, and we’ll see.  Anyway, I can’t afford to go above, say $300 for this right now, so I don’t think it’s gonna work out.  That’s OK!  She’s free to say yes or no to whatever she wants to do.  :) But how about a butterfly with some background?  That could easily come in at three hours…

Unfortunately, background won’t fit in with the future, unborn butterflies. Otherwise, yup, that would probably do it.  :) Thanks, -buttrfly

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll start the discussion about reasons why to refuse small works for big artists  :) *** Because after YEARS of paying dues, doing tattoos like butterflys just isn’t exciting. THAT’S a valid reason. *perhaps….it still is discriminatory. You can yammer all you want about the meaning behind the butterfly (rebirth, transformation), but I bet with a LITTLE immagination, you could come up with a MUCH more creative, meaningful tattoo. Oh yeah, that, and the fact that the butterfly is the single most requested tattoo for woman. *yawn* *So? Anyone who wants one should be able to get one….by a real artist, not a scratcher because an artist thinks it’s stupid or not interesting enough. Do you refuse to do navels or toungues?….Yawn! the most selled piercings the reason to do them: it makes people happy and it pays the rent. Kari is one of the most talented artists in the world, you are lucky to be close enough to just walk in. Honor her talent and creativity with using your imagination. *I’m very fortunate to live quite near. You can do better than a butterfly. *Even if someone could do better, why should they want that ??? I’ve been raised with a phrase:" Il n’y a pas mieux que ce qui plait." They’re goes nothing above what you like…. It’s just me bitching: One should be able to get what he/she likes unregarding how interesting that is. Corine, not wanting a butterfly but always ready to advocate for it.

  You’d make Voltaire proud. "For four-fifths of our history, our planet was populated by pond scum."                       — J.W. Schopf to reply switch JustKermit for frog-n-clog at mindspring

–  I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe.  Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of    Orion.  I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.  All those moments  will be lost in time, like tears in rain…Time to die.

Response:

 You’d make Voltaire proud.

*or I would scare him to death…. But yeah….we have an history of idealism. See our coins: "liberte, egalite, fraternite"…there is no escape <g Corine "For four-fifths of our history, our planet was populated by pond scum."                       — J.W. Schopf to reply switch JustKermit for frog-n-clog at mindspring

Response:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

*Happy you had a good time. Send money for more. Corine "For four-fifths of our history, our planet was populated by pond scum."                       — J.W. Schopf to reply switch JustKermit for frog-n-clog at mindspring

Response:

Scenario 2: butterfly tattoo buyer goes into shop: "HI! it’s me, I admire you so much that I’d love to have a butterfly done by you, I know it’s boring or may not be big enough..still it matters much to me: Would you be prepared to give me advice of what it would take if I were to be tattooed by you? requirements? ( hours , how big, etc…) If you really aren’t up to it, who would you recommend to help me get a nice butterfly? " I think any butterfly lover with social skills would get an answer.

<bridging off Corine to buttrfly To be honest when I met her she came off to me as the type of person <if you are cool and articulate of your wishes she would flex her rules to accommodate. Understand this was 8 years ago and she may have changed. I think if you let her know it is a project and part of a collection in terms of a theme she would at least give you a chance to sell her on it. Beyond that it is up to you. Personally I will do nearly any work that does not offend me… This is basically limited to racist and or crass work. As an artist I always reserve the right to tell a client to bite me if I do not wish to do the work. This is a good thing to keep in mind when approaching us arrogant artsy types. Peace — JSin The Lost Generation Custom Tattoo and Design http://www.bigfoot.com/~lostgen Don’t just bitch about Spam do something Join CAUCE http://www.cauce.org

Response:

Unfortunately, background won’t fit in with the future, unborn butterflies. You’re planning on having cocoons tattooed on your body, as well?  Cool!

Even though I have had my fill of butterflies I would do a chrysalis… :::::O.T. Went to the butterfly show/ exhibit/ whatever at the Seattle Science Center a couple weeks ago with my Daughter and there was the COOLEST metallic gold cocoon there… I wish I knew the species but it is hard to remember with a 10 year old pointing out flying bugs::::: — JSin The Lost Generation Custom Tattoo and Design http://www.bigfoot.com/~lostgen Don’t just bitch about Spam do something Join CAUCE http://www.cauce.org

Response:

I’ll start the discussion about reasons why to refuse small works for big artists  :)

*** Because after YEARS of paying dues, doing tattoos like butterflys just isn’t exciting. THAT’S a valid reason. You can yammer all you want about the meaning behind the butterfly (rebirth, transformation), but I bet with a LITTLE immagination, you could come up with a MUCH more creative, meaningful tattoo. Oh yeah, that, and the fact that the butterfly is the single most requested tattoo for woman. *yawn* Kari is one of the most talented artists in the world, you are lucky to be close enough to just walk in. Honor her talent and creativity with using your imagination. You can do better than a butterfly. — k e i t h   a l e x a n d e r w w w . n o o t r o p e . n e t www.modernamerican.com a p p   n y c – e n d   t r a n s m i s s i o n –

Response:

***tattoos like butterflys just isn’t exciting. THAT’S a valid reason. *perhaps….it still is discriminatory.

*** It is not. It’s can be a boring tattoo. Done small, that is. *So? Anyone who wants one should be able to get one….by a real artist, not a scratcher because an artist thinks it’s stupid or not interesting enough.

*** There are PLENTY of artists, not scratchers, who will do it. An artist of Kari’s stature has EVERY right to refuse to do ANYTHING she wants. ANY artist has that right. Must they do a KKK tattoo? Is THAT discriminatory if they refuse? Do you refuse to do navels or toungues?….Yawn! the most selled piercings

*** Most selled? Errr. Anyway, the truth? I enjoy giving nice people anything they want. But I’ll tell you… I refuse to do MANY piercings on people who come into the shop saying things that offend me. Like, the people who look at photos and say *That’s fucking gross, Those people are sick…*. THOSE people are lucky to just be told to leave. Again, an artist can say no to ANYTHING. And a boring, small tattoo is something worth saying no to. Notice, I am not saying her motivation is wrong, I am saying you can come up with a better design. If she even has a deeper motivation. the reason to do them: it makes people happy and it pays the rent.

*** The reason to not do them: It make the artist sad and somethings are more important than money. *Even if someone could do better, why should they want that ??? I’ve been raised with a phrase:" Il n’y a pas mieux que ce qui plait." They’re goes nothing above what you like….

*** French? I’ll let that slide. Or.. turning it around… The artist dosen’t like it… they don’t do it. Gee, you were right. It’s just me bitching: One should be able to get what he/she likes unregarding how interesting that is.

*** Unregarding? Err… One SHOULD be able to get NO thing. Life is not always fair and you can’t always get what you want. But she CAN get what she wants. Just not there, perhaps. Corine, not wanting a butterfly but always ready to advocate for it.

*** Learn to choose your battles, Corrine. — k e i t h   a l e x a n d e r w w w . n o o t r o p e . n e t www.modernamerican.com a p p   n y c – e n d   t r a n s m i s s i o n –

Response:

she probably wouldn’t do my butterfly tattoo because she has a three hour minimum. …  I don’t understand — why doesn’t everyone just do exactly what *I* want them to do??   <g

She didn’t say she wouldn’t do it.  She said you’d have to pay for three hours.  Big difference.  How badly do you want to have your tattoo done by a world-class artist? But how about a butterfly with some background?  That could easily come in at three hours… — Guinness

Response:

I think any butterfly lover with social skills would get an answer.

*** Amen. — k e i t h   a l e x a n d e r w w w . n o o t r o p e . n e t www.modernamerican.com a p p   n y c – e n d   t r a n s m i s s i o n –

Response:

Unfortunately, background won’t fit in with the future, unborn

butterflies. You’re planning on having cocoons tattooed on your body, as well?  Cool! WyrdWoman www.mindspring.com/~amy.webb/

Response:

*perhaps….it still is discriminatory. *So? Anyone who wants one should be able to get one….by a real artist, not a scratcher because an artist thinks it’s stupid or not interesting enough. Do you refuse to do navels or toungues?….Yawn! the most selled piercings the reason to do them: it makes people happy and it pays the rent. *I’m very fortunate to live quite near. *Even if someone could do better, why should they want that ??? I’ve been raised with a phrase:" Il n’y a pas mieux que ce qui plait." They’re goes nothing above what you like…. It’s just me bitching: One should be able to get what he/she likes unregarding how interesting that is. Corine, not wanting a butterfly but always ready to advocate for it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. — Battersby. http://www.battersbyornamental.com

Response:

buttrfly is sad because big artists don’t do little tattoos.  I called Outer Limits and Kari Barba is on vacation right now, but Yvonne there said that she probably wouldn’t do my butterfly tattoo because she has a three hour minimum.  :(  It isn’t like little tats can’t be important too.  Just not worthwhile to the big names, I guess.  Sorry to be grumpy, but I *just* got off the phone and I’m all disappointed.  I don’t understand — why doesn’t everyone just do exactly what *I* want them to do??   <g

You need to keep looking for an artist. My artist (Kathy Body in Barrie, Ontario) does incredible small tattoos. And incredible large tattoos. As far as "big names" go, sounds to me like some of them are too big for their britches. Look for a more talented, not big-name artist, you may end up much happier. Yes, your artist should do what you want. (Unless it’s a *really* bad idea. Then they should tell you *why* it’s a really bad idea.) They work for you. Dana Bitch 16  Wench 22  BS 23 ‘96 FXDS-Conv "Roxie"

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buttrfly is sad because big artists don’t do little tattoos.  I called Outer Limits and Kari Barba is on vacation right now, but Yvonne there said that she probably wouldn’t do my butterfly tattoo because she has a three hour minimum.  :(  It isn’t like little tats can’t be important too.  Just not worthwhile to the big names, I guess.  Sorry to be grumpy, but I *just* got off the phone and I’m all disappointed.  I don’t understand — why doesn’t everyone just do exactly what *I* want them to do??   <g

Quit whining and get a fucking big one already. —–yttrx

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Yes, your artist should do what you want. (Unless it’s a *really* bad idea. Then they should tell you *why* it’s a really bad idea.) They work for you.

No, they dont.  They are providing a service for you.  You are NOT their boss. Your artist should do what THEY want, and if THEY want what YOU want, consider yourself lucky. —–yttrx

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*** Because after YEARS of paying dues, doing tattoos like butterflys just isn’t exciting. THAT’S a valid reason. *perhaps….it still is discriminatory.

But totally fair.  No tattoo artist owes their clients ANYTHING before the money hits the table.  To assume otherwise is to put a person with a bloody needle and alot of bottled up resentment in a rather uncomfortable position.   Which is really incredibly stupid. Oh yeah, that, and the fact that the butterfly is the single most requested tattoo for woman. *yawn* *So? Anyone who wants one should be able to get one….by a real artist, not a scratcher because an artist thinks it’s stupid or not interesting enough.

Yes, they should be able to get one, and by a real artist *somewhere*, just not this Kari person.  It is the artists discretion, they can do as they please.  If the client doesnt like what the artist decides, then the client is free to go elsewhere. Are you saying that artists ought to be forced to tattoo anything that any client wants? *I’m very fortunate to live quite near. You can do better than a butterfly. *Even if someone could do better, why should they want that ??? I’ve been raised with a phrase:" Il n’y a pas mieux que ce qui plait." They’re goes nothing above what you like….

Thats because you’re french, and french people always think that what they like is better than what everyone else likes.  Even if its sauteed snails. And then theres Quebec…*shudder* Anyhow, again, to sum up: —the original poster wants a really nice butterfly —kari has a three hour minimum —the original poster doesnt want a BIG butterfly; she wants a small one —kari has a three hour minimum Givens: Kari can do what she wants because shes been working for a long         time and she has no financial problem with turning away work that         shed rather not do         The original poster wants something that quite alot of other         artists could probably pull off very nicely.   Concludsion:  The original poster should go somewhere else and get used               to the little disappointments of life, because theyre only               going to get worse from here. —–yttrx

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Also sprach xabraxasx: Yes, your artist should do what you want. (Unless it’s a *really* bad idea. Then they should tell you *why* it’s a really bad idea.) They work for you. No, they dont.  They are providing a service for you.  You are NOT their boss.

so what you’re saying is (morals and ethics of tattooing certain things aside):  if you go to an artist and ask for a certain design and they dislike it, *POW* they should just do whatever they want regardless of how you feel about it???   is this how you ended up with flowers on your arm, yttrx?  <g Your artist should do what THEY want, and if THEY want what YOU want, consider yourself lucky.

and if not, walk away……i, for one, don’t like the idea of having what someone else wants on my body…… =-P — bert the destroyer! LMSGU Worldwide

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Personally I will do nearly any work that does not offend me… This is basically limited to racist and or crass work. As an artist I always reserve the right to tell a client to bite me if I do not wish to do the work. This is a good thing to keep in mind when approaching us arrogant artsy types.

*I saw her porfolio yesterday night There’s no word for it. I think that if someone is reasonable and not arrogant stating their wishes and reasons for a specific work, poeple tend to listen and acommodate. For the records, I personally have no wish for a butterfly. I have something else in mind Corine, happy owner of a fresh tragus ( nice and crunchy and an upgraded navel (had a close encounter with a taper to a 12 gauge stage) "For four-fifths of our history, our planet was populated by pond scum."                       — J.W. Schopf to reply switch JustKermit for frog-n-clog at mindspring

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<snip post why artist is entitled to do or refuse any job and why bttrfly should do *Of course. This is why I suggest bttrfly a number 2 scenario. You either get a yes or no answer, deal with it and get someone else recommended. Corine "For four-fifths of our history, our planet was populated by pond scum."                       — J.W. Schopf to reply switch JustKermit for frog-n-clog at mindspring

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Question:

Greetings, humans and other sentient and non-sentient beings and life-forces. Can anyone recommend a good artist in or very near Irvine, California?  As some of you may remember, I add a butterfly tattoo for each time I travel, and I’ll be in Irvine at the end of this month for a short time.  A very short time.  If anyone has any recommendations for an artist I could contact, I’d appreciate hearing from you! Thanks much, — -buttrfly ~the moment i jumped off of it      was the moment i touched down~

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Greetings, humans and other sentient and non-sentient beings and life-forces. Can anyone recommend a good artist in or very near Irvine, California?  As some of you may remember, I add a butterfly tattoo for each time I travel, and I’ll be in Irvine at the end of this month for a short time.  A very short time.  If anyone has any recommendations for an artist I could contact, I’d appreciate hearing from you!

Kari Barba Located in Tustin and Orange….small drive from Irvine… Make an appoinment. Good luck! Corine — Douglas Adams: "You live and learn. At any rate, you live." to reply switch JustKermit for frog-n-clog at mindspring

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Well, I’ve received two recommendations for Kari Barba, and I have seen her work and her shop featured in magazines and stuff, so I’m guessing she’s a good artist to talk to.  Thanks for the help! -buttrfly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings, humans and other sentient and non-sentient beings and life-forces. Can anyone recommend a good artist in or very near Irvine, California?  As some of you may remember, I add a butterfly tattoo for each time I travel, and I’ll be in Irvine at the end of this month for a short time.  A very short time.  If anyone has any recommendations for an artist I could contact, I’d appreciate hearing from you! Kari Barba Located in Tustin and Orange….small drive from Irvine… Make an appoinment. Good luck! Corine — Douglas Adams: "You live and learn. At any rate, you live." to reply switch JustKermit for frog-n-clog at mindspring

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Question:

One of my classmates is a tattoo artist soooo…. Wanna see? Heh. Aware1 — Toto… I don’t think we’re in Kansas anymore.

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One of my classmates is a tattoo artist soooo…. Wanna see? Heh. Aware1 Harleyman, enquiring mind

If I show you, will you hold it against me? ;o) Aware1 — Toto… I don’t think we’re in Kansas anymore.

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One of my classmates is a tattoo artist soooo…. Wanna see? Heh.

Well, I’ll take a gander, if’n you’ll be so kind. Purely out of Artistic Interest, of course…… — moreover, they have spoken untruths; secondarily, they are slanders; sixth and lastly, they have belied a lady; thirdly, they have verified unjust things; and, to conclude, they are lying knaves." Shakespeare – _Much Ado.._

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i was going to get a butterfly tattoo on my upper thigh yesterday for my birthday but things didn’t work out so that i was able to, so this weekend will probably be it. cool cool cool!!

Thanks! Eagerly awaiting upcoming details of *your* tattoo adventure! Aware1 — Toto… I don’t think we’re in Kansas anymore.

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Captain Button! I’d like to show you. Aware1 One of my classmates is a tattoo artist soooo…. Wanna see? Heh. Well, I’ll take a gander, if’n you’ll be so kind. Purely out of Artistic Interest, of course……

– Toto… I don’t think we’re in Kansas anymore.

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Question:

OK, my turn to be shouted at. I’ve read the FAQs and done a deja search on the subject of tattoos done from paintings etc. and read the postings relating to Kate’s Kandinsky piece.  Most of the postings seem to relate to Disney’s attitude to tattoos. My query is this: At the end of this summer my artist and I intend starting on my backpiece which is from a picture I have liked for quite a while.  The copy of the picture I have has no readable signature and from its style I guessed it to be fairly old. I have just found out it is by Michael Parkes, a still living artist. Judging from other backpieces I have seen the general attitude seems to be just go ahead and do it but I don’t like to feel I am treading on toes, possibly legally as well as metaphorically. Also, in view of recent postings regarding hacking, don’t you think it would be a good idea if there was some sort of register of backpieces as an alternative to keep reading the mags and hoping no-one turns up at the next show with the same piece as you.  Or am I missing something here. Thanks in advance, Mike the tattooed taxi driver

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Mike the tattooed Taxi driver wrote I’ve read the FAQs and done a deja search on the subject of tattoos done from paintings etc.

Mazel tov!!! Mike wants a backpiece…. Judging from other backpieces I have seen the general attitude seems to be just go ahead and do it but I don’t like to feel I am treading on toes, possibly legally as well as metaphorically.

The piece you’re looking at, you say, might be Michael Parkes….  Maybe you can find the picture and ask him how he feels? Michael Parkes Official WebSite by Steltman Galleries http://www.steltman.com/ http://www.printsplus.com/catalog/parkes-main.html Artist Michael Parkes Paintings & Famous Stone Lithos – Pierside Gallery http://www.piersidegallery.com/artists/parkes/ This won’t answer your copyright questions for everyone, but it might help you with your particular back piece.  I’ll be interested to see what legal types of responses are posted ~ Rebekah (Emailed & posted) http://www.bmeworld.com/rebekah/reasked-home.html Decorated Spice, Boston Breakfast Club/BoobCon ‘99 "Jamieblurr’s mom has a butterfly tattoo… and she’s a hetero male… ::grin::" AOL now has kill files for online readers

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when I start my right sleeve, I have a Mark Ryden piece in mind to tie into it. All I did was e-mail him and ask him if it was OK to go ahead with it. He said there was no problem with him and was actually excited that I had chose one of his paintings. I just wanted to ask before I went ahead with it, and I got a positive response! Just my .2 cents. turbodog – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike the tattooed Taxi driver wrote I’ve read the FAQs and done a deja search on the subject of tattoos done from paintings etc. Mazel tov!!! Mike wants a backpiece…. Judging from other backpieces I have seen the general attitude seems to be just go ahead and do it but I don’t like to feel I am treading on toes, possibly legally as well as metaphorically. The piece you’re looking at, you say, might be Michael Parkes…. Maybe you can find the picture and ask him how he feels? Michael Parkes Official WebSite by Steltman Galleries

http://www.steltman.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.printsplus.com/catalog/parkes-main.html Artist Michael Parkes Paintings & Famous Stone Lithos – Pierside Gallery http://www.piersidegallery.com/artists/parkes/ This won’t answer your copyright questions for everyone, but it might help you with your particular back piece.  I’ll be interested to see what legal types of responses are posted ~ Rebekah (Emailed & posted) http://www.bmeworld.com/rebekah/reasked-home.html Decorated Spice, Boston Breakfast Club/BoobCon ‘99 "Jamieblurr’s mom has a butterfly tattoo… and she’s a hetero male… ::grin::" AOL now has kill files for online readers

– Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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<snip post questioning legality and ethics regarding using a piece of art as a tattoo First, judos for looking up previous threads and seeing all the disney crap (they make a good example since if anyone is gonna act like nazi’s regarding something they own, its them). Second, the basic deal with a piece of art is that – in a sense – anyone can copy it.  By this, I mean that I can goto to any art gallery, look in any book I want, etc and do a sketch of, paint a likeness of, scuplt a version of any damn thing I want.  In fact, this is a fairly traditional form of teaching art and something many artists do for practice, study, and inspiration. Furthermore you can sell, market, or otherwise profit from your "interpretation" all you want and can.  I say "interpretation because that is exactly what your tattoo will be – an interpetation of the piece in another medium (ie tattooing).  There are of course some further peculiarities if you choose something like a logo or disney character but with a painting or such, no worries. And so long as the interpretation shows some decent technical skill in reproduction, the artist would be a complete f*ck not to be flattered and happy. Erik Sprague aka Snakeboy -< http://members.aol.com/spidergod5/index.html

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: : Judging from other backpieces I have seen the general attitude seems to be : just go ahead and do it but I don’t like to feel I am treading on toes, : possibly legally as well as metaphorically. There is probably some legal theory that applies.   However, it would apply to the copyist and not to the paper.   Furthermore, as the media is different, it would probably be considered a "derivative work" and therefore not within the copyright law. Anyway, no lawyer wants to go into a courtroom with *That* argument. Tattoo artists do periodically get notices form Disney cautioning them about their copyright.   To my knowledge, nobody has been prosecuted.  These warnings are a legal requirement on the part of the copyright holder to demonstrate they are defending their rights. Geoffrey

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OK, my turn to be shouted at. I’ve read the FAQs and done a deja search on the subject of tattoos done from paintings etc. and read the postings relating to Kate’s Kandinsky piece.  Most of the postings seem to relate to Disney’s attitude to tattoos. My query is this: At the end of this summer my artist and I intend starting on my backpiece which is from a picture I have liked for quite a while.  The copy of the picture I have has no readable signature and from its style I guessed it to be fairly old. I have just found out it is by Michael Parkes, a still living artist. Judging from other backpieces I have seen the general attitude seems to be just go ahead and do it but I don’t like to feel I am treading on toes, possibly legally as well as metaphorically.

Just as an afterthough, i wouldn’t consider doing any work based on a TFP photo…. iniquity

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when I start my right sleeve, I have a Mark Ryden piece in mind to tie into it. All I did was e-mail him and ask him if it was OK to go ahead with it. He said there was no problem with him and was actually excited that I had chose one of his paintings. I just wanted to ask before I went ahead with it, and I got a positive response! Just my .2 cents. turbodog

A few pieces down the road, I hope to get some back work based on one of H.R. Giger’s designs.  In his latest book, he says that he loves it when people think highly enough of his work to have it inked.  He’s even coordinating a new book exclusively of tattoos from around the world that feature his art. I think that Daniel Oulette’s work would lend itself to some great ink as well. Vargr www.gawth.com/~desolate

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<snip Tattoo artists do periodically get notices form Disney cautioning them about their copyright.   To my knowledge, nobody has been prosecuted.  These warnings are a legal requirement on the part of the copyright holder to demonstrate they are defending their rights.

I think Disney is concerned with trademark as well as copyright issues. The law, though related, is different–as far as I know, you can’t lose copyright in something by not pursuing infringement (though you may eventually have trouble convincing a court to give you damages against the particular infringer), but you can lose a trademark if you don’t go after people who use it (or, more generally, if the court concludes that it’s being used as a generic term–US examples include aspirin and mimeograph). I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. — Vicki Rosenzweig Survivability of dates past the end of the universe is uncertain. –RFC 2550

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Thanks to all who posted and e-mailed advice and comments. Mike the tattooed taxi driver

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Question:

Hi I was wondering if you could help, I have heard that you can now get 5 year tattoos.  Does anyone have anyinformation on this?  I have tried looking for info on the net but I cant seem to find any.  Do you know if they are any good, or if they fade quite fast?  How are they done ~ by needle or a dye? Hope anyone can help Thanx, Laura VISIT LAURAS JOVI WEB SITE: http://members.aol.com/Jovifan2/Page1.html

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they are done with a needle. You go to your local tattoo artist and get a tattoo then spend 5 years saving for Laser removal and Voila. Seriously THERE ARE NO 1 YEAR 5YEAR or even 6MONTH tattoos. They just dont exist. PS I have disturbingly bad news for you about Elvis The Easter Bunny and Santa Claus email me and I will break it to you gently – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I was wondering if you could help, I have heard that you can now get 5 year tattoos.  Does anyone have anyinformation on this?  I have tried looking for info on the net but I cant seem to find any.  Do you know if they are any good, or if they fade quite fast?  How are they done ~ by needle or a dye? Hope anyone can help Thanx, Laura VISIT LAURAS JOVI WEB SITE: http://members.aol.com/Jovifan2/Page1.html

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I have heard that you can now get 5 year tattoos.  Does anyone have anyinformation on this?  I have tried looking for info on the net but I cant seem to find any.  Do you know if they are any good, or if they fade quite fast?  How are they done ~ by needle or a dye?

Urban legend, and a silly one at that. No tattoo should have an "end date," unless it’s the date you’re going to get it removed. You’re out of luck. Wait for a while and maybe you’ll feel ready for a permanent one. Sara — http://welcome.to/sarasworld "I may be love’s bitch, but at  least I’m man enough to admit it."  - Spike, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

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Sara wrote regarding 5 year tattoos Urban legend, and a silly one at that. No tattoo should have an "end date," unless it’s the date you’re going to get it removed.

I’ve only heard of these on RAB.  I’d love to talk IRL to someone who claims to do them… to find out how they think they’re done, etc.  Curiosity is getting the best of me…. ~ Rebekah http://www.bmeworld.com/rebekah/reasked-home.html Decorated Spice, Boston Breakfast Club/BoobCon ‘99 "Jamieblurr’s has a butterfly tattoo… and she’s a hetero male… ::grin::" AOL now has kill files for online readers

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I have heard that you can now get 5 year tattoos.  

Where? What is your source? inqiuity

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I’ve only heard of these on RAB.  I’d love to talk IRL to someone who claims to do them… to find out how they think they’re done, etc.   Curiosity is getting the best of me….

I have my suspicion that these 5 (or 2, or 7, or however long) year tattoos are not only an urban legend, but that no artist actually offers them. I have a feeling that these are usually something that somebody told somebody about, and it grew from there. You know, the usual way these tales spread. Sara — http://welcome.to/sarasworld "I may be love’s bitch, but at  least I’m man enough to admit it."  - Spike, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

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I’ve only heard of these on RAB.  I’d love to talk IRL to someone who claims to do them… to find out how they think they’re done, etc. Curiosity is getting the best of me…. I have my suspicion that these 5 (or 2, or 7, or however long) year tattoos are not only an urban legend, but that no artist actually offers them. I have a feeling that these are usually something that somebody told somebody about, and it grew from there. You know, the usual way these tales spread.

I know that they are offered in Germany. Nina — C’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot.                         Louis Pasteur http://members.xoom.com/critterwoman

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: I have heard that you can now get 5 year tattoos.  Does anyone have : anyinformation on this?  I have tried looking for info on the net but I cant : seem to find any.  Do you know if they are any good, or if they fade quite : fast?  How are they done ~ by needle or a dye? Years ago, I remember seeing an artist in CA offering "Semi Permanent" tattoos.  That would last about five years. I watched them do their work.   They are real permanent tattoos.   They last forever.   Of course by the time you find out, the artist is gone. This is an old carny trick.   A sick one, but a trick. Geoffrey

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: I have heard that you can now get 5 year tattoos.  Does anyone have : anyinformation on this?  I have tried looking for info on the net but I cant : seem to find any.  Do you know if they are any good, or if they fade quite : fast?  How are they done ~ by needle or a dye? Years ago, I remember seeing an artist in CA offering "Semi Permanent" tattoos.  That would last about five years. I watched them do their work.   They are real permanent tattoos.   They last forever.   Of course by the time you find out, the artist is gone. This is an old carny trick.   A sick one, but a trick.

I’ve heard of things like this before, and its got to be one of the funniest things ive *ever* heard….hahahahahahahahaaaa I cant wait for the first time someone comes up to me and tells me all about their ‘5-year tattoo’ that they got down on the boardwalk in atlantic city… —–yttrx

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Sara wrote regarding 5 year tattoos    <snip I’ve only heard of these on RAB.  I’d love to talk IRL to someone who claims to do them… to find out how they think they’re done, etc.  Curiosity is getting the best of me….

ya know, there was a post some time ago about research being done at the university of pennsylvania (phila) about these 5 year tattoos. and i think too many people came to us out of nowhere, saying they’re interested in one for nothing of the like to exist.  granted, they’re probably not going to look very nice during the 5th year though.         kim *true till death*

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve only heard of these on RAB.  I’d love to talk IRL to someone who claims to do them… to find out how they think they’re done, etc. Curiosity is getting the best of me…. I have my suspicion that these 5 (or 2, or 7, or however long) year tattoos are not only an urban legend, but that no artist actually offers them. I have a feeling that these are usually something that somebody told somebody about, and it grew from there. You know, the usual way these tales spread. I know that they are offered in Germany.

I know a friend in Cologne who claims to have had two of ‘em…*shrug* -Sally

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ya know, there was a post some time ago about research being done at the university of pennsylvania (phila) about these 5 year tattoos. and i think too many people came to us out of nowhere, saying they’re interested in one for nothing of the like to exist.  granted, they’re probably not going to look very nice during the 5th year though.

kinda like, too many people have heard there are alligators in the sewers in NY, so they *must* be there? not that i’d doubt it about the alligators. new york’s pretty nasty, especially underground. Lilith — now i’m surrounded by lunatics who don’t even need a moon…         -Voltaire, "the man upstairs"

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Sara wrote regarding 5 year tattoos Urban legend, and a silly one at that. No tattoo should have an "end date," unless it’s the date you’re going to get it removed. I’ve only heard of these on RAB.  I’d love to talk IRL to someone who claims to do them… to find out how they think they’re done, etc.  Curiosity is getting the best of me….

I’ve seen them advertised in my local town, although I haven’t followed it up. Smeg — http://www.bigfoot.com/~smeg-head —obuggerbuggerbuggerhelpaarghnoNoNoAarghBuggerNONOAARGH—                 -The sound of a failed Sky Dive.                  Terry Pratchett. Small Gods.

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 Sara wrote regarding 5 year tattoos     <snip  I’ve only heard of these on RAB.  I’d love to talk IRL to someone who claims  to  do them… to find out how they think they’re done, etc.  Curiosity is  getting  the best of me….  ya know, there was a post some time ago about research being done at the  university of pennsylvania (phila) about these 5 year tattoos. and i think too  many people came to us out of nowhere, saying they’re interested in one for  nothing of the like to exist.  granted, they’re probably not going to look very  nice during the 5th year though.

Have there been any publications resulting from that research?  I think it’s just biologically impossible – either the paint goes into the top layer of skin, where it is sloughed off after 2 weeks (henna does that), or it goes into the dermis, where it stays forever.  The reason tattoos are permanent is that the ink particles are too large for the macrophages to digest, and so they just sit there.  If the ink were such as to disintegrate within the skin – and such things might exist – it would disappear in a few days to a few weeks.  5 years is not a probable figure at all. As far as people’s interest indicating existence – many people claim to have been abducted by UFO’s, too.   — Larisa Migachyov           http://www.stanford.edu/~lvm

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I’ve only heard of these on RAB.  I’d love to talk IRL to someone who claims to do them… to find out how they think they’re done, etc. Curiosity is getting the best of me…. I have my suspicion that these 5 (or 2, or 7, or however long) year tattoos are not only an urban legend, but that no artist actually offers them. I have a feeling that these are usually something that somebody told somebody about, and it grew from there. You know, the usual way these tales spread. I know that they are offered in Germany.

Can you explain to us what they are/how they are done? iniquity

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I know that they are offered in Germany. Can you explain to us what they are/how they are done?

The theory is that a temptoo is not done as deep as a regular tattoo. And like Larisa said, that’s BS. It’s either in the epidermis where it’s shed after 4- 6 weeks, or it’s permanent. It just doesn’t work. Some time ago, a German guy posted here who was about to get one done. I wrote him a looong email explainng why he shouldn’t. He didn’t get it done , but he did take what I wrote to the "artist". And of course the guy still said that what he said was true. He admitted that it *might* take up to 8 years to disappear (as opposed to 3 years) . There have been reports about temptoos fading and blurring a lot and just being like badly done real tattoos. Nina — C’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot.                         Louis Pasteur http://members.xoom.com/critterwoman

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I know that they are offered in Germany. I know a friend in Cologne who claims to have had two of ‘em…*shrug* -Sally

What happened? Laser removal ? Or are they just a few years old and not ‘ready’ to disappear? Are they faded or blurred? Nina — C’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot.                         Louis Pasteur http://members.xoom.com/critterwoman

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The theory is that a temptoo is not done as deep as a regular tattoo. The skin is basically divided into two                     layers, a superficial one that sheds continuously (epidermis) and a deep one that doesn’t (dermis). Normal                     tattoos go between the two, or slightly into the dermis.                     Ink particles brought into the epidermis will be shed with the skin and disappear after 4 to 6 weeks. Ink                     particles in the dermis are there to stay (except for those being carried away by macrophages etc) The bottom                     line: it’s either gone after 6 weeks, or it’s permanent. Nina — C’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot.                         Louis Pasteur http://members.xoom.com/critterwoman

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I know that they are offered in Germany. I know a friend in Cologne who claims to have had two of ‘em…*shrug* -Sally What happened? Laser removal ? Or are they just a few years old and not ‘ready’ to disappear? Are they faded or blurred?

Um, I don’t know, exactly….he said they grew out, he didn’t say how long it took…I heard somewhere about dyes that faded slowly or something… I don’t actually know a lot about tattooing I’ll ask him when he gets back from his holiday -Sally

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Um, I don’t know, exactly….he said they grew out, he didn’t say how long it took…I heard somewhere about dyes that faded slowly or something… I don’t actually know a lot about tattooing I’ll ask him when he gets back from his holiday

Hmmmm… that is an interesting thought. If I thought they could really make inks that were timed to fade in the skin, that might make more sense than doing at a different depth. I just doubt that they exist in any decent form. Maybe I’m wrong. But I think that if I were, these would be more commonly found and advertised, and wouldn’t seem so damn sketchy. I’m interested to hear about Sally’s friend’s tattoo, though. Sara — Sara Mitchell http://welcome.to/sarasworld "Many of today’s swing devotees are punk  fans; both movements share an interest  in dressing up and dancing hard."       — Doug Stewart, "Smithsonian"

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I can offer another theory as to why temporary tattoos might work.   If the size of the ink particles is bigger or larger, perhaps they are not as well trapped in the interstical collagen as effectively.    My caution to that is that the matrix varies and what might be temporary for one person is not as temporary for another.    My concern would be that some trace of the tattoo will last. It will be interesting if anyone tries to sue the artist for creating a temporary tattoo that lasts too long. Geoffrey

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Um, I don’t know, exactly….he said they grew out, he didn’t say how long it took…I heard somewhere about dyes that faded slowly or something… I don’t actually know a lot about tattooing I’ll ask him when he gets back from his holiday Hmmmm… that is an interesting thought. If I thought they could really make inks that were timed to fade in the skin, that might make more sense than doing at a different depth. I just doubt that they exist in any decent form. Maybe I’m wrong. But I think that if I were, these would be more commonly found and advertised, and wouldn’t seem so damn sketchy. I’m interested to hear about Sally’s friend’s tattoo, though. Sara

I think he said he has a tiny bit of scarring…I *will* ask him, but I can’t get in touch with him at the moment cos he’s off somewhere in america with his girlfriend and it seems he can’t get to a computer *lol* Someone remind me in a week, please *g* -Sally

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Hi I was wondering if you could help, I have heard that you can now get 5 year tattoos.  Does anyone have anyinformation on this?  I have tried looking for info on the net but I cant seem to find any.  Do you know if they are any good, or if they fade quite fast?  How are they done ~ by needle or a dye?

It’s like being "sort of" pregnant. You are or you aren’t. There is no sort of. Tattoos are permanant. This BS is being spread around Germany now. I wonder what will happen to those tattoo artist in 5-7 years when their clients realize that they have been duped? Misha

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: It’s like being "sort of" pregnant. You are or you aren’t. There is no : sort of. Tattoos are permanant. This BS is being spread around Germany : now. I wonder what will happen to those tattoo artist in 5-7 years when : their clients realize that they have been duped? Of course I have a bit of a problem with the ethics of it but it is pretty funny.   A practical joke for an age where committment is not cherished. Geoffrey

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Of course I have a bit of a problem with the ethics of it but it is pretty funny.   A practical joke for an age where committment is not cherished.

Preach on, brotherman. Laura — Laura Gitchel http://pobox.com/~gitchel/laura/

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