Question:

Your site. THUMBNAILS! A wonderful thing. Amazing work. I hadn’t been following along. THUMBNAILS, BITCH! — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9    moshimoshi!   — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

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Your site. THUMBNAILS! A wonderful thing. Amazing work. I hadn’t been following along. THUMBNAILS, BITCH!

Yeah, but… there’s so MANY of those damned photos. And I’ve been busy playing with debian linux and dusty and stuff… I know. I’ll make a Cliff Notes version, that’s the ticket. Have you looked at the revamped Jan Seeger site? I still have to bug Jan about more photos – Gallery 3 is a bit light, and it’s still a bit slow (though Jan isn’t quite as freaked out about lossy images as she used to be, so they’re a bit better) but if I were to redesign my site I’d probably go with a similar format now. If you don’t mind a little javascript, that is… http://www.janseeger.com Thanks, by the way.     Susan

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http://www.janseeger.com

I forgot to mention (and you may notice the similarity) Jan and I really liked the Guggenheim.org site…if you’re going to steal a design, steal from the best and then make it just a little different

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THUMBNAILS, BITCH! Yeah, but… there’s so MANY of those damned photos. And I’ve been busy playing with debian linux and dusty and stuff…

http://www.digitaldutch.com/arles/ Nina — C’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot.                             Louis Pasteur http://www.chaotropic.net

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S a similar format now. If you don’t mind a little javascript, that is…         FUCK JAVA. everyone should have LYNX-COMPATIBLE SITES. lish                                      "even with your best defense, 38.5% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

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http://www.digitaldutch.com/arles/

What! Let a program do the hard stuff???? NEVER!!! I’m HARDCORE!!! I’m SO hard core, I’ll be in Tattoo Savage again in the coming months!!  (Boomer Savage, anyone??) :D:D I’ve seen those programs – if I’m not mistaken, Photoshop has that capability, too. The problem is, my site is already bloated with pages and they generate an html per image – yikes! There are close to 600 images in my tattoo pages alone. Add in the Bonaire photos and there’s more than 1000 on the site. I’ll probably bite the bullet and convert the individual html pages to asp pages – that’ll allow me to use the same page to generate separate pages for images or groups of images. It’s more or less what I did with my later Bonaire photos (though I’m not at all happy with the layout I did – I was lazy and didn’t spend any time on aesthetics) and with the last tattoo magazine 3-parter. I hear you might be out our way. Geoffrey’s bionic hips are healing nicely and he probably will barely need a cane to get around, get in touch if you want to get together!     Susan

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http://www.digitaldutch.com/arles/ What! Let a program do the hard stuff???? NEVER!!! I’m HARDCORE!!! I’m SO hard core, I’ll be in Tattoo Savage again in the coming months!!  (Boomer Savage, anyone??) :D:D

Hee. I’ll look out for it. I’ve seen those programs – if I’m not mistaken, Photoshop has that capability, too. The problem is, my site is already bloated with pages and they generate an html per image – yikes! There are close to 600 images in my tattoo pages alone. Add in the Bonaire photos and there’s more than 1000 on the site.

You can upload them automatically . I think there are also some that generate popup windows for every picture. I hear you might be out our way. Geoffrey’s bionic hips are healing nicely and he probably will barely need a cane to get around, get in touch if you want to get together!

We are in touch There’s a munch loosely planned for Saturday May 24th. At least we talked about that a while back. Nina — C’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot.                             Louis Pasteur http://www.chaotropic.net

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You can upload them automatically .

Uploading isn’t really the issue, it’s more an issue of I just don’t like to be force-fed "features". I’d rather set up my own way of doing things, with just the features I want. Maybe not all that pretty, but easily maintained – and I wouldn’t have to worry about whether I want to update Image580.html or is it Image581.html? I think there are also some that generate popup windows for every picture.

Ack, now THAT I don’t want… We are in touch There’s a munch loosely planned for Saturday May 24th. At least we talked about that a while back.

Ah, but that was back before the first hip was done, and when he was obsessing about how long his recuperation might be, and whether or not he’ll be able to get around easily, etc. etc. And he hasn’t mentioned a word since, so I wasn’t sure WHAT was on. I’m always the last to know.     Susan

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I’ll probably bite the bullet and convert the individual html pages to asp pages –

*** They suck bad enough now. Please don’t add a database to the mix. Simple pages and let the work speak for itself. 29 wincing proceduarals… KA

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What! Let a program do the hard stuff???? NEVER!!! I’m HARDCORE!!! I’m SO hard core, I’ll be in Tattoo Savage again in the coming months!!  (Boomer

Heh.  I think we’re too old for Savage…  Maybe they need a warning to those over 40. capability, too. The problem is, my site is already bloated with pages and they generate an html per image – yikes! There are close to 600 images in my tattoo pages alone. Add in the Bonaire photos and there’s more than 1000 on

I recently redid a big photo album [400+ pictures] with PHP and MySQL.  It makes for one fat database, but it works well. — Stan Schwarz                | Extreme sports…offer "some kind of physical stanATcosmo.pasadena.ca.us  | analog to the thrill of installing Linux or http://cosmo.pasadena.ca.us | other open-source operating systems."                             |           -Mikki Halpin, _The Geek Handbook_

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I use html images, how do I convert them to asp. Can I do that with frontpage?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What! Let a program do the hard stuff???? NEVER!!! I’m HARDCORE!!! I’m SO hard core, I’ll be in Tattoo Savage again in the coming months!!  (Boomer Heh.  I think we’re too old for Savage…  Maybe they need a warning to those over 40. capability, too. The problem is, my site is already bloated with pages and they generate an html per image – yikes! There are close to 600 images in my tattoo pages alone. Add in the Bonaire photos and there’s more than 1000 on I recently redid a big photo album [400+ pictures] with PHP and MySQL.  It makes for one fat database, but it works well. — Stan Schwarz                | Extreme sports…offer "some kind of physical stanATcosmo.pasadena.ca.us  | analog to the thrill of installing Linux or http://cosmo.pasadena.ca.us | other open-source operating systems."                             |           -Mikki Halpin, _The Geek Handbook_

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What! Let a program do the hard stuff???? NEVER!!! I’m HARDCORE!!! I’m SO hard core, I’ll be in Tattoo Savage again in the coming months!!  (Boomer Heh.  I think we’re too old for Savage…  Maybe they need a warning to those over 40.

Actually, I had a similar conversation about this with Jan Seeger, who called me up to tell me that they liked a recent photo she took of me, and wanted more. (I said "Savage??!!!?? Are you sure??? Are THEY sure???") Maybe it’s because I was wearing a mask, naked and sitting in such a way as to just obscure the naughty bits and so my age wasn’t quite so obvious – the last time I was in Savage, a reader was so horrified they were moved to write in to complain about having to look at my flabby ass! I recently redid a big photo album [400+ pictures] with PHP and MySQL.  It makes for one fat database, but it works well.

My later Bonaire pages are ASP with with Access, and work pretty well (though I will concede the page design suckiness). There’s one ASP page, that displays each of the something like 140 images with a description, individually and on the fly. The thing is, I’ve been spoiled by having cable-modem for a long time. All my images are sized appropriate for that or other high speed access. Susan

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I use html images, how do I convert them to asp. Can I do that with frontpage?

*** BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9    moshimoshi!   — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

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S a similar format now. If you don’t mind a little javascript, that is…    FUCK JAVA. everyone should have LYNX-COMPATIBLE SITES.

Screw that. Lynx is too bloated and feature-ridden. I just telnet to port 80 and type my own GET requests. — Ian

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I just telnet to port 80 and type my own GET requests.

*** WE HAVE A WINNER. Wait. You CAN’T telnet to :80, can you? $ telnet nasa.gov:80 get shuttleworms put modernamerican index.html — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9       Ukiyo-e!   — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

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I just telnet to port 80 and type my own GET requests. *** WE HAVE A WINNER. Wait. You CAN’T telnet to :80, can you?

Sure you can. In fact, I actually do it sometimes – it’s one of the easiest ways to find out what headers a web server is actually sending to you. When one of my servers is fucking up in a big way, I do this for testing. If you really want to try it, do something like: telnet www.bmezine.com 80 And after the acknowledgement message, type: GET / HTTP/1.0 and hit return *twice*. You should get the the text of the home page. You can do HTTP 1.1, too, but the syntax is more complex – you have to send more headers. I need to get out more. — Ian

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I need to get out more.

*** Nah. Stay in and post more. I can’t recall if I think you’re a cunt or not. — k e i t h . a l e x a n d e r http://www.nootrope.net http://www.modernamerican.com aim: nootrope9       Ukiyo-e!   — e n d . t r a n s m i s s i o n —

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   FUCK JAVA. everyone should have LYNX-COMPATIBLE SITES.

I Screw that. Lynx is too bloated and feature-ridden. I I just telnet to port 80 and type my own GET requests.         ok, it’s decided. we’ll have sex. lish                                              "ask me the questions 38.5% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

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I’ll probably bite the bullet and convert the individual html pages to asp pages – *** They suck bad enough now. Please don’t add a database to the mix. Simple pages and let the work speak for itself. 29 wincing proceduarals…

Sheesh, everyone’s a critic. When I started the damn things I knew next to nothing about html and they show it, I know.  :) For what it’s worth, I made a couple of test replacement pages (asp.NET – even more anathematized here, I’m sure, but I’m a REBEL!) No database involved, either. http://scamptattoo.com/mytattoos.aspx, which no longer has any photos at the bottom (though it does have a new one near the top). Instead, there’s a link early on to http://scamptattoo.com/mytattoophotos.aspx, where the earlier photos and descriptions are able to be viewed, using a button. See whatcha think of that…     Susan PS: I expect there’ll be a koi update soon?

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to just obscure the naughty bits and so my age wasn’t quite so obvious – the last time I was in Savage, a reader was so horrified they were moved to write in to complain about having to look at my flabby ass!

Yet another reason to hate tattoo magazines – they are so determined to print ‘hot’ chicks, when they actually print pictures of cool tattoos on a chick who isn’t model-perfect, people freak. Stupid people. Jan Seegar is a great photographer – she did a layout with a friend of ours a few years ago (Jennifer Whitmill) and the photos were SO nice.  I’d love to have her photograph me. Lucky you, Susan! TQ

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Stupid people.

I think lish is rubbing off on you. Jan Seegar is a great photographer – she did a layout with a friend of ours a few years ago (Jennifer Whitmill) and the photos were SO nice.  I’d love to have her photograph me.

Is she in any of the tattoo photos  in www.janseeger.com/gallery5.htm? Lucky you, Susan!

Well, she is married to my tattoo artist, and she comes to the Mad Hatters every year, so we hang anyway. She’s photographed me, and Geoffrey and me together, almost every year for the past 5 or 6 years, but most of it is very theatrical and odd, not to mention black and white. My favorite props so far have been the ratty wig (used as both a wig and a merkin — merkin AFTER wig, I’ll add) and the masks. We used the masks twice, and this last batch (of me alone, and me with another girl) apparently came out quite nice, though I haven’t seen them. It’s too bad you weren’t able to go to the Nationals – Jan told me she was going to be there with Trev this year. She probably would have been thrilled to do a shoot with you!     Susan

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Stupid people. I think lish is rubbing off on you.

Hee.  Wait.  Lish rubbed me?  Why wasn’t i told in advance? <snip It’s too bad you weren’t able to go to the Nationals – Jan told me she was going to be there with Trev this year. She probably would have been thrilled to do a shoot with you!

Yeah, that would have been fun – sounds neat, all the props and whatnot.  I havn’t bought a tattoo magazine in a while, so i havn’t seen much of her stuff lately.  Maybe i should. Does she publish in one or two specifically anymore?  I’m soooo out of the loop anymore. TQ

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Yeah, that would have been fun – sounds neat, all the props and whatnot.  I havn’t bought a tattoo magazine in a while, so i havn’t seen much of her stuff lately.  Maybe i should. Does she publish in one or two specifically anymore?  I’m soooo out of the loop anymore.

She hasn’t been in too many lately – she mostly does product for money now, and her artier stuff is for gallery shows. It so happens that Tattoo magazine asked her to represent them at the Mad Hatter’s this year, and since she goes there every year anyway, she figured it’s be fun and profitable. Bill DeMichele and Bonge stopped going there after the debacle a few years ago when the Double Tree took over the Ramada and the new management treated us all like criminals. I think Robert Butcher used to go too, though I’m not positive. They had a few off-years after that, at first trying out a new hotel with a separate (by a few miles) convention hall. That was pretty nasty – you had to take a bus or drive over to the convention hall. Now the new place has rooms for the convention too, but many artists stopped going during the bad years and never went back. It still gets Shaun Anderson, Joe Montagna, Bill Funk, locals like Juli Moon, Mark Herlehy and Bald Bill Henshaw, people like that, but Brian Everett and Tony Olivas stopped going, as did Paul Booth (I think his ego has gotten too big for that convention anyway), and a lot of the people who used to come over from Europe stopped coming after 911. It’s kind of a shame – it really is a fun little show, and especially considering it’s in Maine in the middle of the winter, gets pretty good business. It probably won’t be around for much longer either – Lou Robbins (the man who organizes it, who owns the Mad Hatter Tattoo Shop in Old Orchard Beach) is getting along in years, and it really is his labor of love.     Susan

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I think lish is rubbing off on you.

T Hee.  Wait.  Lish rubbed me?  Why wasn’t i told in advance?         more to the point, why wasn’t *i* told?! lish                                       "it’s been written with love 38.5% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

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It’s kind of a shame – it really is a fun little show, and especially considering it’s in Maine in the middle of the winter, gets pretty good business. It probably won’t be around for much longer either – Lou Robbins

I’ve heard a lot about Mad Hatters over the years and always wanted to go, but Cat reacted to winter in Maine like it was horrible or something, so…  :) And yeah, i’ve done the conventions where you have to walk or ride from hotel to convention space – not very cool. TQ

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Question:

I’ve always known that the training was more important to me, but I didn’t realize how much more.  When I had to cancel my whole season because my knee doesn’t permit even walking, much less running (just the word *run* is painful), I thought I’d ease up on the biking, which luckily I can still do although with some care, and I’d even cut back on swimming.  No way.  I just returned from a hill that I attempted to attack as if I had the world’s anything ahead of me.  Same with swimming.  Is this all that unusual or do some of you feel that strongly about the enjoyment of training that you’ll kick your own butt even if there are no others to kick in the near future?     Ruth Kazez

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Nope, it sucks to just train with no races. Me, I need races to keep me going, and, races on a fairly frequent basis. Plus, I think races sharpen you way more than just training. Also, it is my philosphy that unless you race tris, then you are not a triathlete. Just swimming biking, running only means you swim, bike, run. That is not a triathlete, simply working out.

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  Also, it is my philosphy that unless you race tris, then you are not a triathlete. Just swimming biking, running only means you swim, bike, run. That is not a triathlete, simply working out.

Unless you have been doing triathlons for 15 or so years and have gone to most of the world championships and spent the cost of a Porsche maybe going to IMH a half dozen times.  Then training is quite enough to call yourself anything you want. Ruth Kazez

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 Also, it is my philosphy that unless you race tris, then you are not a triathlete. Just swimming biking, running only means you swim, bike, run. That is not a triathlete, simply working out. Unless you have been doing triathlons for 15 or so years and have gone to most of the world championships and spent the cost of a Porsche maybe going to IMH a half dozen times.  Then training is quite enough to call yourself anything you want.

I love to race…but it’s the training that is most important to me.  I learned that the same way you did, through injury.  My first Triathlon is this Sunday (and the following Sunday) just a hair of 2 years since my last.  My training (since I’ve been able) has been just as intense w/o the thought of races ahead, this coming from a very competitive person.  It was/is still very important to me to improve upon myself w/o consideration of others.  Getting that run loop in under 50 minutes, or that ride to Briny Breezes in under 3 hours are just 2 of my main goals, goals which noone else will ever know about even when realized.  I could live w/o racing (not as happily) but living w/o training would suck bad.  May you recover quickly. Tim buaidh no bas

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Unless you have been doing triathlons for 15 or so years and have gone to most of the world championships and spent the cost of a Porsche maybe going to IMH a half dozen times

If you did that then go ahead a refer to yourself as a triathlete. I know you have, but… Then training is quite enough to call yourself anything you want.

Sorry, got to call you on this one. Anyone who swims, bikes, runs, without racing is not a triathlete. If that is the criteria, then just about every little kid is a triathlete. Someone goes out to the sprint tri once a year, I don’t think so.

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Unless you have been doing triathlons for 15 or so years and have gone to most of the world championships and spent the cost of a Porsche maybe going to IMH a half dozen times.  Then training is quite enough to call yourself anything you want.

Then you’d be a retired triathlete.

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Sorry, got to call you on this one. Anyone who swims, bikes, runs, without racing is not a triathlete. If that is the criteria, then just about every little kid is a triathlete. Someone goes out to the sprint tri once a year, I don’t think so.

Sorry, but by your own criteria, one sprint a year puts them over the line to being a triathlete.  They race, with regularity, if not high frequency.

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If you did that then go ahead a refer to yourself as a triathlete.

I’m sure that Ruth, the World Champion in her age group before her injury, is absolutely thrilled that you’ll allow her to call herself a triathlete. LOL. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 Great Floridian ‘99, ‘00

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| Nope, it sucks to just train with no races. Me, I need races to keep me going, | and, races on a fairly frequent basis. Plus, I think races sharpen you way more | than just training. Also, it is my philosphy that unless you race tris, then | you are not a triathlete. Just swimming biking, running only means you swim, | bike, run. That is not a triathlete, simply working out. | Ahh, you must be one of those who categorizes everything in life. If you’re a jazz aficionado, I’ll bet guys like Miles Davis, Chick Corea & Wynton Marsalis just drive you nutty because they didn’t/don’t stay in one little pigeon hole category. Is Bob Dylan a folk or blues artist? I have a couple of engineering degrees. If I quit my job tomorrow and went to work selling burgers would I cease to be an engineer? What if I was to move into a management position in an engineering company where I didn’t actually do any hands-on engineering? Have you never done a bike race, or an mtb race? Living in CO have you ever done any snowshoe races? If so, then what became of your triathlete title, then? Good grief, if we were to take your stance to its logical end then none but those who earn their entire living from racing in triathlons would be considered triathletes. Call yourself what you will; this discussion always seems pointless to me. stacy hills reston, va

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Maybe I’ll go out tomorrow to Putt Putt and then call myself a golfer too. I’ll just dabble in all sorts of things and then believe I am what I tried once. Sometimes you have to DO what you think you are in order to BE what it is you profess to be.

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Sorry, but by your own criteria, one sprint a year puts them over the line to being a triathlete.  They race, with regularity, if not high frequency.

I guess you got me on that one. Yeah, once every ten years I play tennis. Hmm… must be a tennis player. Hey, I think I am due to play next year. Got to keep up the illusion.

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I have a couple of engineering degrees. If I quit my job tomorrow and went to work selling burgers would I cease to be an engineer? What if I was to move into a management position in an engineering company where I didn’t actually do any hands-on engineering?

Different concept – an engineer is distinguished as much by training as by current occupation. Have you never done a bike race, or an mtb race? Living in CO have you ever done any snowshoe races? If so, then what became of your triathlete title, then? Good grief, if we were to take your stance to its logical end then none but those who earn their entire living from racing in triathlons would be considered triathletes.

You’re missing something here.  I know people who own bicycles, and occasionally ride them.  They know how to swim, and may occasionally do a lap or two.  Everybody runs from time to time, if only to catch a bus.  Triathlon, by definition, is the combination of these three activities into one contiguous, competitive event.  A triathlete is one who does triathlons. This is a reasonable criteria for applying the label. Someone pointed out that the average child swims bikes and runs almost every day of their summer.

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Sorry, but by your own criteria, one sprint a year puts them over the line to being a triathlete.  They race, with regularity, if not high frequency. I guess you got me on that one. Yeah, once every ten years I play tennis. Hmm… must be a tennis player.

Sure, just not an avid one.  Actually, I would concede that the definition should probably include the intent to participate in the future, as well as having participated in the past. Hey, I think I am due to play next year. Got to keep up the illusion.

There you go, you just qualified yourself.

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"Treemoss2" wrote … | Sometimes you have to DO what you think you are in order to BE what it is you | profess to be. | I am nothing to no one. How do I do that?

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Brian Wagner wrote … | | You’re missing something here. No, you overlooked and deleted the final and most important line of my message that tied together my point. The effort to lay down criteria for who does and does not qualify to call themselves a triathlete is ridiculous. What purpose does the discussion serve? It is pointless and fruitless. stacy hills reston, va

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If you did that then go ahead a refer to yourself as a triathlete. I’m sure that Ruth, the World Champion in her age group before her injury, is absolutely thrilled that you’ll allow her to call herself a triathlete. LOL. Mike Tennent

Now you know how I feel to be washed up and a has been. Me at 16, you at … over 16;-).  I guess , Ruth, we just have to go through life being cute. They can’t take that away from us!!! D.J " Ironkid National Champion 1993,1994,1995,1996,1997 at something????" PS. How many triathAlons will I have to do to become a triathAlete again???? GOOD LUCK RUTH, HANG IN THERE!!!

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Since some people have posted that racing once a year does not qualify one to be a triathlete then here is a question to ponder- Were there not some years that Dave Scott only raced a few times in the year?  Does that mean that he was not a triathlete those years?? Ben Reuter

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Sorry, but by your own criteria, one sprint a year puts them over the line to being a triathlete.  They race, with regularity, if not high frequency. I guess you got me on that one. Yeah, once every ten years I play tennis. Hmm… must be a tennis player. Sure, just not an avid one.  Actually, I would concede that the definition should probably include the intent to participate in the future, as well as having participated in the past.

How will you measure intent?  Does it have to be a realistic intention? One final question (for now), how would you label someone who is training for his or her first triathlon? — Jeremy Pomeroy Exercise Psychology Dept. of Exercise Science Arizona State University "mens sana in corpore sono"

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All I said was I love to train.  Hardly an opportunity for pedantic semantic nit-picking.  If I wanted to toss a bone, I would have thought of a more contentious subject than that. Good thing I don’t have one of those cool tattoos or I’d be in real trouble now.  Of course, next year I could have it put on again, maybe on my new knee. Ruth Kazez

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You’re missing something here.  I know people who own bicycles, and occasionally ride them.  They know how to swim, and may occasionally do a lap or two.  Everybody runs from time to time, if only to catch a bus.  Triathlon, by definition, is the combination of these three activities into one contiguous, competitive event.

How is competitive defined?  Competitive as in gives out awards or as in individuals competing against self or others?  What if an individual only does triathlons for fun and competes with no one is he or she a triathlete.  What about someone that goes out on his or her own and swims then bikes then runs (as a contiguous event) but does not ever enter a formally organized triathlon.  Is this person a triathlete? — Jeremy Pomeroy Exercise Psychology Dept. of Exercise Science Arizona State University "mens sana in corpore sano"

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.  What about someone that goes out on his or her own and swims then bikes then runs (as a contiguous event) but does not ever enter a formally organized triathlon.  Is this person a triathlete?

    Now that is a good question.  A friend of mine, not a policman, told me he did an Ironman distance years ago he called "The Lonely Man".    I asked him where that event was.  Acutally, he said, he did it all by myself and it took all day.  He described the  course that he followed for the swim (local lagoon over a mile long and back), bike (way out to the wine country and back)  and marathon (some rediculous multi-neighborhood loop).  I asked him if he felt like an Ironman or a triathlete.  I don’t think he really cared what he felt or what he could be described as regarding a tri-label, he just wanted to see if he could do it.   Anyone ever done a "Lonely Man"? Rick (the blues singer) Swanger

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Is Bob Dylan a folk or blues artist?

A songwriter.  His performing abilities don’t rate. Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

How will you measure intent?  Does it have to be a realistic intention? One final question (for now), how would you label someone who is training for his or her first triathlon?

Well, that’s the point. IMO even if you are going to race only one triathlon in your life, you are a triathlete as long as you train for that future triathlon. This discussion loosly resembles the discussion about who may be called a runner and who’s may be called a jogger. The discussion is still open on that, but there seems to be a concensus on: "You are what you train.", as I will explain below. If you only train to improve your fitness, but have no real racing aspirations, you’re a jogger (or health runner). Your training schedule is not very targeted towards a particular distance(s). Runners OTOH have a definitive goal: running in competition with others over a set distance with a set goal in mind. This goal can either be a time result, or a ranking result; it might even be just reaching the finish. For triathletics this would mean that if you train for a future triathlon, you’re a triathlete. It doesn’t matter if you’ve already done a triathlon or not. I could be mistaken, because I have never done a triathlon until now, but I hope this somehow makes sense to you all. Rene van Belzen hurray [at] xs4all [dot] nl My Running Log http://www.xs4all.nl/~hurray/myrunninglog/

Response:

No, you overlooked and deleted the final and most important line of my message that tied together my point. The effort to lay down criteria for who does and does not qualify to call themselves a triathlete is ridiculous. What purpose does the discussion serve? It is pointless and fruitless.

And since when has that been an obstacle to debate in this forum?

Response:

How is competitive defined?  Competitive as in gives out awards or as in individuals competing against self or others?  

I would say that that there must be two or more participants, and that some mechanism must exist to comparatively measure their performance and to insure that they complete the same course under the same conditions/restrictions. What if an individual only does triathlons for fun and competes with no one is he or she a triathlete.  

By participating and giving their best effort, and allowing that best effort to be measured comparatively with that of the rest of the field, they are a competitor, even if they are not a contender.  The issue is putting your performance out there for comparison. What about someone that goes out on his or her own and swims then bikes then runs (as a contiguous event) but does not ever enter a formally organized triathlon.  Is this person a triathlete?

That is just exercise.  A great musician once said that without an audience, one cannot perform, only rehearse.

Response:

Question:

Great report!! Very encouraging to hear the older ones are outlasting the younger guys!!! Mickie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This weeks trail report. Wednesday June 13 Adrenalin! Trail length: 8 miles Time on trail: approximately 1:45 Estimated activity points: 6 Temp: 90 F Humidity: awful Falls: 0 I was half way into the ride thinking that I was going to be able to come back and give a 0-Fall Report when I came across a very steep slope that I had bypassed on several previous trips. I had bypassed the slope because I didn’t think that I had yet developed the skills needed to make it without a major crash (I was chicken!). The slope was a long steep and windy trail full of babyheads and death cookies (see: http://world.std.com/ ~jimf/biking/slang.html ) At first it looked like a slope that you could simply ride the brakes down but at the top it dropped about 2 feet from a rocky plateau which would instantly increase your speed the moment you hit the trail.  I sat at the top for what felt like 10 minutes debating whether to bypass it so that I could hopefully make another flawless ride or taking a chance on the hill. I finally decided that I wasn’t going to continue to have fun much longer if I didn’t start trying to further develop my skills. So I went for it! I dropped over the edge and instantly realized that the real trick was in the braking. Too little break and my speed increased dramatically. Too much break with the rear and I was in a not-so-controlled skid. Too much front brake and I would certainly do an endo with my increased speed. On top of that I had to pick a course through the obstacles (see above). Too much speed and I would not make the turn and go over the bank into the lake. Oh, did I fail to mention the lake at the bottom? The ride was over in just a few seconds although it seemed like minutes in slow motion. I had found the right balance, avoided the obstacles, the lake and an endo. I had made it!!! It was so fast that there was not really any time to think. Finding the balance was almost Zen like, it was just a feeling!!!  I stopped at the bottom and realized my adrenalin was off the scale (see "stoked" http://world.std.com/~jimf/biking/slang.html#S ) What a great feeling! I had done it!!! As a result of my adrenalin boost I detoured to take on another similar hill that I had been previously avoiding. It was actually steeper but shorter and straighter. The catch was that there was a creek at the bottom that was very muddy. My previous worry on this on was that I would do an endo when I hit the mud due to the speed. So I went for it and just leaned back as far as I could and road it through. I made it too!!! On this trip I pushed myself to take on new challenges and didn’t get hurt in the process. It was a near perfect ride. I say near perfect because somehow my heart rate monitor didn’t get set right so I wasn’t able to collect my exercise data. I had to guess at my activity points based on previous experience and feeling. I rate this ride 4 Skinny Cows. Saturday June 16th Spider Patrol. Trail length: 8 miles Time on trail: 1:20:36 Temp: 78 F Humidity: high Activity Points: 7 Bunnies spotted: 1 – Cotton Tail Deer spotted: 1 – Whitetail Falls: 2 Scrapes: 1 – and it’s still oozing! There is no doubt that you are the first on the trail in the morning when you hit all the spider webs that are across the trail from the night before! I got up early this morning and hit the trial just after sunrise. The temp was in the high ’70s and rising and although the humidity was high it felt much cooler than the rides I have been taking in the evenings. This ride was nearly as great as Wednesday’s ride. I made all but 1 hill climb without having to walk and made both the down hills mentioned above without a crash. The two falls that I had were just stupidity on my part. The first was when I took my focus off the trail to look at something off in the distance. I ran off the trail and crashed. The second was on the one hill I didn’t quite make to the top. Just about 4 feet from the top my legs had lost all their strength. I was in granny low and couldn’t downshift anymore but kept pushing myself hoping I would make it. When my legs totally gave out I didn’t have the strength left to clip out of my pedals and just fell over. When I was almost out of the trail I came upon a group of riders that had passed me due to their detouring around the hills that I went down (see above).  They were resting and waiting on two of their buddies that I had just passed about a mile or more back. I stopped and we started talking. Funny thing was the strongest riders in this group were older than me. The two that they were waiting on were both 25 years old! When the younger guys caught up I had to give them directions to a shortcut out. When the older guys and me took the last big hill to the main trailhead the oldest took off and left me in the dust! I was very encouraged to meet the older guys on the trail and see that they had more endurance and strength than the younger guys. This give me even more hope that I can achieve athletic shape even though I am almost 40!!! One thing I have been noticing on the trails. All the other biker dudes have cool tattoos. I really don’t want a permanent tattoo so I wonder if anybody would notice if I got one of those stick-on types? I rate this ride at 4 Skinny Cows as well(take off one for the stupid falls but add one for outlasting the 25 year olds!) I also found a website that has videos of mountain biking. http://www.petefagerlin.com/video_gallery.htm The difference between the locations in the videos and where I ride is that I am riding through woods that are so thick that it is too dark to wear my sunglasses at mid day. I go under lots of banana scrapers ( http://world.std.com/~jimf/biking/slang.html#B ) and in some places the woods are nearly vegatable tunnels ( http://world.std.com/ ~jimf/biking/slang.html#V ) — Wired_1 215/147.8/158

Response:

You’ve got a month of experience and to me, that makes you an expert.  ;-) Yeah, I actually rode Slick Rock.  It was awesome.  When I was 13 and entering Boy Scouts (that’s real big here in Utah) my scout leader got me really into biking.  I did the trails and the whole bit.  On Slick Rock I got wrapped around a rock instead of a tree. If you ever have a chance to do Slick Rock, do it.  It is the biggest thrill I think I’ve ever had.  Riding a bike along the edge of a 500 foot cliff is exhilirating and terrifying all at once.  I’ve got a goal to do Slick Rock again. You’re a leader!  You’ve paved your trail and motivated many on this group! Dustin  ;-)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In Southern Utah we’ve got a 13 mile trail called Slick Rock that is pure red desert rock the whole way.  When I was 17 I rode slick rock with about 15 other guys in 115 degree weather.  I was only one of 4 who made it through the whole trail.  I don’t know if I could even ride a mile now. Wow, you rode Slick Rock? Slick Rock, Moab is world famous now!!! I have been out of biking for so long I don’t even know anything about it anymore.  They have so many new things since I did it that when I read about some of the stuff they have now I feel like a kid using a computer for the first time. A month ago I didn’t either. Remember the old expression… "just like

riding a bicycle, once you learn you never forget"? It’s really true!!! Keep posting your trail reports, they are motivating for me! Thank you. Since I have been posting them here it has helped me as well.

It’s kind of like journaling the food. I have decided I am going to purchase a new bike, I just haven’t informed

my wife yet (she is the CFO). I really didn’t have the budget for mine. I bought it anyway. I told my

wife it was for my health. It truly was. Not just physical though. It is helping me retain my sanity too!!! I’m curious how you got started and how you progressed to the point where you are at now.  I really want to get back into it but I honestly don’t know where to start. Well I didn’t know where to start either, it just sort of happened. I

remember reading and responding to posts in this ng from Andy Gee and Stephen Rees about scootering and bike

riding. It got me to thinking about finding an exercise that I would enjoy more than the tredmill. I

figured I’d have more opportunities with the mountain bike than a scooter in my area. I also got to talking to

people I know who have bikes and it just kind of went from there. I hadn’t ridden a bike in over 10 years and that was just for a brief

time. Before that it was when I was a teenager. My biggest excuse to not ride was the traffic in my area.

Stephen and Andy gave me some good suggestions for dealing with the traffic. So I started researching bikes

and talking to people in the area about places to ride bikes. The more I dug into it the more I wanted to get a bike. One of the things

that made decide on a  mountain bike as opposed to a road bike was something that another biker told me.

He said that if I was looking for an activity to get my mind off of work and help with the stress mountain

biking was the one to choose. He said that walking and jogging are excellent exercises but you could still

be thinking about work or other worries while doing them. He said mountain biking requires your full

concentration. If you are flying down a trail at break neck speed and are not focused on what you are doing you

will most likley wrap yourself around a tree!!! Trust me he is right! The first time I hit the trails I was hitting trees but it wasn’t from

lack of concentration. It was my lack of skills. However, there was not one minute while I was on that trail

when I wasn’t thinking about what I was doing. Work was the furthest thing from my mind! I couldn’t believe

the effect. I am still amazed at how thereputic it is. When I’m on the trail it’s just me, my bike, and the

trail. It’s almost as though nothing else exists! Oh, and another factor comes into play as well here, when you

exercise yourself to exaustion you don’t feel like thinking about work or anything else for that

matter!!! Then during the drives home all I can think about is how good the Skinny Cows will taste! Keep thrilling us with your reports! I will try. Thanks. But keep in mind I am still a beginner. I have only

had the bike for about a month now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I am no expert on the matter. I am only reporting from my experiences. — Wired_1 215/147.8/158

Response:

In Southern Utah we’ve got a 13 mile trail called Slick Rock that is pure red desert rock the whole way.  When I was 17 I rode slick rock with about 15 other guys in 115 degree weather.  I was only one of 4 who made it through the whole trail.  I don’t know if I could even ride a mile now.

Wow, you rode Slick Rock? Slick Rock, Moab is world famous now!!! I have been out of biking for so long I don’t even know anything about it anymore.  They have so many new things since I did it that when I read about some of the stuff they have now I feel like a kid using a computer for the first time.

A month ago I didn’t either. Remember the old expression… "just like riding a bicycle, once you learn you never forget"? It’s really true!!! Keep posting your trail reports, they are motivating for me!

Thank you. Since I have been posting them here it has helped me as well. It’s kind of like journaling the food. I have decided I am going to purchase a new bike, I just haven’t informed my wife yet (she is the CFO).

I really didn’t have the budget for mine. I bought it anyway. I told my wife it was for my health. It truly was. Not just physical though. It is helping me retain my sanity too!!! I’m curious how you got started and how you progressed to the point where you are at now.  I really want to get back into it but I honestly don’t know where to start.

Well I didn’t know where to start either, it just sort of happened. I remember reading and responding to posts in this ng from Andy Gee and Stephen Rees about scootering and bike riding. It got me to thinking about finding an exercise that I would enjoy more than the tredmill. I figured I’d have more opportunities with the mountain bike than a scooter in my area. I also got to talking to people I know who have bikes and it just kind of went from there. I hadn’t ridden a bike in over 10 years and that was just for a brief time. Before that it was when I was a teenager. My biggest excuse to not ride was the traffic in my area. Stephen and Andy gave me some good suggestions for dealing with the traffic. So I started researching bikes and talking to people in the area about places to ride bikes. The more I dug into it the more I wanted to get a bike. One of the things that made decide on a  mountain bike as opposed to a road bike was something that another biker told me. He said that if I was looking for an activity to get my mind off of work and help with the stress mountain biking was the one to choose. He said that walking and jogging are excellent exercises but you could still be thinking about work or other worries while doing them. He said mountain biking requires your full concentration. If you are flying down a trail at break neck speed and are not focused on what you are doing you will most likley wrap yourself around a tree!!! Trust me he is right! The first time I hit the trails I was hitting trees but it wasn’t from lack of concentration. It was my lack of skills. However, there was not one minute while I was on that trail when I wasn’t thinking about what I was doing. Work was the furthest thing from my mind! I couldn’t believe the effect. I am still amazed at how thereputic it is. When I’m on the trail it’s just me, my bike, and the trail. It’s almost as though nothing else exists! Oh, and another factor comes into play as well here, when you exercise yourself to exaustion you don’t feel like thinking about work or anything else for that matter!!! Then during the drives home all I can think about is how good the Skinny Cows will taste! Keep thrilling us with your reports!

I will try. Thanks. But keep in mind I am still a beginner. I have only had the bike for about a month now. So I am no expert on the matter. I am only reporting from my experiences. — Wired_1 215/147.8/158

Response:

Wired, I love your trail reports.  I am so envious.  When I was in high school and before I gained weight I was really into mountain biking as well. In Southern Utah we’ve got a 13 mile trail called Slick Rock that is pure red desert rock the whole way.  When I was 17 I rode slick rock with about 15 other guys in 115 degree weather.  I was only one of 4 who made it through the whole trail.  I don’t know if I could even ride a mile now. I have been out of biking for so long I don’t even know anything about it anymore.  They have so many new things since I did it that when I read about some of the stuff they have now I feel like a kid using a computer for the first time. Keep posting your trail reports, they are motivating for me!  I have decided I am going to purchase a new bike, I just haven’t informed my wife yet (she is the CFO). I’m curious how you got started and how you progressed to the point where you are at now.  I really want to get back into it but I honestly don’t know where to start. Keep thrilling us with your reports! Dustin  ;-)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This weeks trail report. Wednesday June 13 Adrenalin! Trail length: 8 miles Time on trail: approximately 1:45 Estimated activity points: 6 Temp: 90 F Humidity: awful Falls: 0 I was half way into the ride thinking that I was going to be able to come back and give a 0-Fall Report when I came across a very steep slope that I had bypassed on several previous trips. I had bypassed the slope because I didn’t think that I had yet developed the skills needed to make it without a major crash (I was chicken!). The slope was a long steep and windy trail full of babyheads and death cookies (see: http://world.std.com/ ~jimf/biking/slang.html ) At first it looked like a slope that you could simply ride the brakes down but at the top it dropped about 2 feet from a rocky plateau which would instantly increase your speed the moment you hit the trail.  I sat at the top for what felt like 10 minutes debating whether to bypass it so that I could hopefully make another flawless ride or taking a chance on the hill. I finally decided that I wasn’t going to continue to have fun much longer if I didn’t start trying to further develop my skills. So I went for it! I dropped over the edge and instantly realized that the real trick was in the braking. Too little break and my speed increased dramatically. Too much break with the rear and I was in a not-so-controlled skid. Too much front brake and I would certainly do an endo with my increased speed. On top of that I had to pick a course through the obstacles (see above). Too much speed and I would not make the turn and go over the bank into the lake. Oh, did I fail to mention the lake at the bottom? The ride was over in just a few seconds although it seemed like minutes in slow motion. I had found the right balance, avoided the obstacles, the lake and an endo. I had made it!!! It was so fast that there was not really any time to think. Finding the balance was almost Zen like, it was just a feeling!!!  I stopped at the bottom and realized my adrenalin was off the scale (see "stoked" http://world.std.com/~jimf/biking/slang.html#S ) What a great feeling! I had done it!!! As a result of my adrenalin boost I detoured to take on another similar hill that I had been previously avoiding. It was actually steeper but shorter and straighter. The catch was that there was a creek at the bottom that was very muddy. My previous worry on this on was that I would do an endo when I hit the mud due to the speed. So I went for it and just leaned back as far as I could and road it through. I made it too!!! On this trip I pushed myself to take on new challenges and didn’t get hurt in the process. It was a near perfect ride. I say near perfect because somehow my heart rate monitor didn’t get set right so I wasn’t able to collect my exercise data. I had to guess at my activity points based on previous experience and feeling. I rate this ride 4 Skinny Cows. Saturday June 16th Spider Patrol. Trail length: 8 miles Time on trail: 1:20:36 Temp: 78 F Humidity: high Activity Points: 7 Bunnies spotted: 1 – Cotton Tail Deer spotted: 1 – Whitetail Falls: 2 Scrapes: 1 – and it’s still oozing! There is no doubt that you are the first on the trail in the morning when you hit all the spider webs that are across the trail from the night before! I got up early this morning and hit the trial just after sunrise. The temp was in the high ’70s and rising and although the humidity was high it felt much cooler than the rides I have been taking in the evenings. This ride was nearly as great as Wednesday’s ride. I made all but 1 hill climb without having to walk and made both the down hills mentioned above without a crash. The two falls that I had were just stupidity on my part. The first was when I took my focus off the trail to look at something off in the distance. I ran off the trail and crashed. The second was on the one hill I didn’t quite make to the top. Just about 4 feet from the top my legs had lost all their strength. I was in granny low and couldn’t downshift anymore but kept pushing myself hoping I would make it. When my legs totally gave out I didn’t have the strength left to clip out of my pedals and just fell over. When I was almost out of the trail I came upon a group of riders that had passed me due to their detouring around the hills that I went down (see above).  They were resting and waiting on two of their buddies that I had just passed about a mile or more back. I stopped and we started talking. Funny thing was the strongest riders in this group were older than me. The two that they were waiting on were both 25 years old! When the younger guys caught up I had to give them directions to a shortcut out. When the older guys and me took the last big hill to the main trailhead the oldest took off and left me in the dust! I was very encouraged to meet the older guys on the trail and see that they had more endurance and strength than the younger guys. This give me even more hope that I can achieve athletic shape even though I am almost 40!!! One thing I have been noticing on the trails. All the other biker dudes have cool tattoos. I really don’t want a permanent tattoo so I wonder if anybody would notice if I got one of those stick-on types? I rate this ride at 4 Skinny Cows as well(take off one for the stupid falls but add one for outlasting the 25 year olds!) I also found a website that has videos of mountain biking. http://www.petefagerlin.com/video_gallery.htm The difference between the locations in the videos and where I ride is that I am riding through woods that are so thick that it is too dark to wear my sunglasses at mid day. I go under lots of banana scrapers http://world.std.com/~jimf/biking/slang.html#B ) and in some places the woods are nearly vegatable tunnels ( http://world.std.com/ ~jimf/biking/slang.html#V ) — Wired_1 215/147.8/158

Response:

This weeks trail report. Wednesday June 13 Adrenalin! Trail length: 8 miles Time on trail: approximately 1:45 Estimated activity points: 6 Temp: 90 F Humidity: awful Falls: 0 I was half way into the ride thinking that I was going to be able to come back and give a 0-Fall Report when I came across a very steep slope that I had bypassed on several previous trips. I had bypassed the slope because I didn’t think that I had yet developed the skills needed to make it without a major crash (I was chicken!). The slope was a long steep and windy trail full of babyheads and death cookies (see: http://world.std.com/ ~jimf/biking/slang.html ) At first it looked like a slope that you could simply ride the brakes down but at the top it dropped about 2 feet from a rocky plateau which would instantly increase your speed the moment you hit the trail.  I sat at the top for what felt like 10 minutes debating whether to bypass it so that I could hopefully make another flawless ride or taking a chance on the hill. I finally decided that I wasn’t going to continue to have fun much longer if I didn’t start trying to further develop my skills. So I went for it! I dropped over the edge and instantly realized that the real trick was in the braking. Too little break and my speed increased dramatically. Too much break with the rear and I was in a not-so-controlled skid. Too much front brake and I would certainly do an endo with my increased speed. On top of that I had to pick a course through the obstacles (see above). Too much speed and I would not make the turn and go over the bank into the lake. Oh, did I fail to mention the lake at the bottom? The ride was over in just a few seconds although it seemed like minutes in slow motion. I had found the right balance, avoided the obstacles, the lake and an endo. I had made it!!! It was so fast that there was not really any time to think. Finding the balance was almost Zen like, it was just a feeling!!!  I stopped at the bottom and realized my adrenalin was off the scale (see "stoked" http://world.std.com/~jimf/biking/slang.html#S ) What a great feeling! I had done it!!! As a result of my adrenalin boost I detoured to take on another similar hill that I had been previously avoiding. It was actually steeper but shorter and straighter. The catch was that there was a creek at the bottom that was very muddy. My previous worry on this on was that I would do an endo when I hit the mud due to the speed. So I went for it and just leaned back as far as I could and road it through. I made it too!!! On this trip I pushed myself to take on new challenges and didn’t get hurt in the process. It was a near perfect ride. I say near perfect because somehow my heart rate monitor didn’t get set right so I wasn’t able to collect my exercise data. I had to guess at my activity points based on previous experience and feeling. I rate this ride 4 Skinny Cows. Saturday June 16th Spider Patrol. Trail length: 8 miles Time on trail: 1:20:36 Temp: 78 F Humidity: high Activity Points: 7 Bunnies spotted: 1 – Cotton Tail Deer spotted: 1 – Whitetail Falls: 2 Scrapes: 1 – and it’s still oozing! There is no doubt that you are the first on the trail in the morning when you hit all the spider webs that are across the trail from the night before! I got up early this morning and hit the trial just after sunrise. The temp was in the high ’70s and rising and although the humidity was high it felt much cooler than the rides I have been taking in the evenings. This ride was nearly as great as Wednesday’s ride. I made all but 1 hill climb without having to walk and made both the down hills mentioned above without a crash. The two falls that I had were just stupidity on my part. The first was when I took my focus off the trail to look at something off in the distance. I ran off the trail and crashed. The second was on the one hill I didn’t quite make to the top. Just about 4 feet from the top my legs had lost all their strength. I was in granny low and couldn’t downshift anymore but kept pushing myself hoping I would make it. When my legs totally gave out I didn’t have the strength left to clip out of my pedals and just fell over. When I was almost out of the trail I came upon a group of riders that had passed me due to their detouring around the hills that I went down (see above).  They were resting and waiting on two of their buddies that I had just passed about a mile or more back. I stopped and we started talking. Funny thing was the strongest riders in this group were older than me. The two that they were waiting on were both 25 years old! When the younger guys caught up I had to give them directions to a shortcut out. When the older guys and me took the last big hill to the main trailhead the oldest took off and left me in the dust! I was very encouraged to meet the older guys on the trail and see that they had more endurance and strength than the younger guys. This give me even more hope that I can achieve athletic shape even though I am almost 40!!! One thing I have been noticing on the trails. All the other biker dudes have cool tattoos. I really don’t want a permanent tattoo so I wonder if anybody would notice if I got one of those stick-on types? I rate this ride at 4 Skinny Cows as well(take off one for the stupid falls but add one for outlasting the 25 year olds!) I also found a website that has videos of mountain biking. http://www.petefagerlin.com/video_gallery.htm The difference between the locations in the videos and where I ride is that I am riding through woods that are so thick that it is too dark to wear my sunglasses at mid day. I go under lots of banana scrapers ( http://world.std.com/~jimf/biking/slang.html#B ) and in some places the woods are nearly vegatable tunnels ( http://world.std.com/ ~jimf/biking/slang.html#V ) — Wired_1 215/147.8/158

Response:

Question:

I’m in town, and I need an excuse to hit Mongo’s.  Anyone doing anything intersting? Tim — Tim Hockin This program has been brought to you by the language C and the number F. ZZ

Response:

TH I’m in town, and I need an excuse to hit Mongo’s.  Anyone doing anyth TH intersting?         oh, of COURSE you’d go to illinois the same week i come to california. that’s it, i’m taking this personally. lish 31.6% / 24

Response:

I’m in town, and I need an excuse to hit Mongo’s.  Anyone doing anything intersting?

I may be performing extreme modifications on pumpkins at some point. We’re also having a girly-drinks party on friday nigth. |+/-1 — www.voteNader.org www.manwoman.net/swastika/index.html www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm  *** Bring down THE MAN to respond ***

Response:

I’m in town, and I need an excuse to hit Mongo’s.  Anyone doing anything intersting? I may be performing extreme modifications on pumpkins at some point. We’re also having a girly-drinks party on friday nigth.

Ahem. http://www.chaotropic.net/pics/pumpkin1.jpg http://www.chaotropic.net/pics/pumpkin2.jpg http://www.chaotropic.net/pics/pumpkin3.jpg Nina — http://chaotropic.net C’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot.                         Louis Pasteur

Response:

We’re also having a girly-drinks party on friday nigth.

alright, so we know jim’s going, then.   who else? josh —       "even though you know a thousand things, ask the man who knows one"                         http://www.bmeworld.com/obmf            

Response:

We’re also having a girly-drinks party on friday nigth. alright, so we know jim’s going, then.   who else?

I hate you all. —–.

Response:

I hate you all.

awww…jim’s all mad again.  isn’t that cute?   we kid because we love, jim.  kisses? jo"no tongue"sh —       "even though you know a thousand things, ask the man who knows one"                         http://www.bmeworld.com/obmf            

Response:

I hate you all. awww…jim’s all mad again.  isn’t that cute?   we kid because we love, jim.  kisses?

—–.

Response:

Go have fun at your party, y’all deserve some fun. (I get to spend this weekend taking pictures of doors. Oh joy, but it’s gotta be done.)

Because I’m nice, I won’t tell you that: NOBODY GIVES A GOOD GODDAMN WHAT YOU’RE DOING THIS WEEKEND, ESPECIALLY IF IT’S SOMETHING AS STUPID AND BORING AS TAKING PICTURES OF MOTHERFUCKING GODDAMNED DOORS. NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP. – Kavin — How can she love me when she doesn’t even love the cinema that I love?

Response:

josh burdette sends: I hate you all. awww…jim’s all mad again.  isn’t that cute? we kid because we love, jim.  kisses?

I didn’t say I hated you all, it was someone else who did. Go have fun at your party, y’all deserve some fun. (I get to spend this weekend taking pictures of doors. Oh joy, but it’s gotta be done.) — –jmowreader http://www.macsalon.org Unsubscribing Instructions: http://www.macsalon.org/howtos/unsub.html

Response:

: josh burdette sends: : : : I hate you all. : : awww…jim’s all mad again.  isn’t that cute? : : we kid because we love, jim.  kisses? : : I didn’t say I hated you all, it was someone else who did. : You aren’t the only Jim here, JAM.  Think before you type. — skyelass "Tolerate me, goddammit!" — rab, Meghan 06/00

Response:

i’ll be back. really. honestly. seriously. well you don’t *have* to believe it. chicago. weekend from 10 to 12 november. i’ll be out sat night, but would anyone want to hang out friday or sunday? nina — if    the    doors    of    perception    were    cleansed every   thing   would   appear   to   man   as   it   is – i  n  f  i  n  i  t  e.                    - william blake ::::::::::::::: http://home.balcab.ch/nis ::::::::::::::::

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – anything in Chicago this coming week?) i’ll be back. really. honestly. seriously. well you don’t *have* to believe it. chicago. weekend from 10 to 12 november. i’ll be out sat night, but would anyone want to hang out friday or sunday?

forget it. i a not driving cross country for you again. *sniff* —Angie a.k.a. D-Strss

Response:

forget it. i a not driving cross country for you again.

why again? had you already taken off to rabcon when i canceled? now gimme back my chocolate. dammit. nina — if    the    doors    of    perception    were    cleansed every   thing   would   appear   to   man   as   it   is – i  n  f  i  n  i  t  e.                    - william blake ::::::::::::::: http://home.balcab.ch/nis ::::::::::::::::

Response:

anything in Chicago this coming week?) forget it. i a not driving cross country for you again. why again? had you already taken off to rabcon when i canceled?

sort of. i was commited to driving 5 other people to RABcon who could each beat me up quite easily by the time you cancelled.

now gimme back my chocolate. dammit.

come and get it! —Angie a.k.a. D-Strss

Response:

i’ll be back. really. honestly. seriously. well you don’t *have* to believe it. chicago. weekend from 10 to 12 november. i’ll be out sat night, but would anyone want to hang out friday or sunday?

Well, I believe the -other- Nina will be in Chicago from the 11th on. So maybe we can do a munch thing on Sunday? |+/-1 — www.voteNader.org www.manwoman.net/swastika/index.html www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm  *** Bring down THE MAN to respond ***

Response:

Well, I believe the -other- Nina will be in Chicago from the 11th on. So maybe we can do a munch thing on Sunday?

it’s CERM[0]. nina [0] chicago european rabbits munch. [1] shit, now i lost my sig. *yawn* — [empty]

Response:

i’ll be back. really. honestly. seriously. well you don’t *have* to believe it. chicago. weekend from 10 to 12 november. i’ll be out sat night, but would anyone want to hang out friday or sunday?

I’ll be there. 11th to 17th. Nina — http://chaotropic.net C’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot.                         Louis Pasteur

Response:

chicago. weekend from 10 to 12 november. i’ll be out sat night, but would anyone want to hang out friday or sunday? Well, I believe the -other- Nina will be in Chicago from the 11th on. So maybe we can do a munch thing on Sunday?

Sunday would be cool. There is a researchers’ reception, but I was planning on dropping that anyways because they don’t really have food and I don’t know anyone. Please, let’s go someplace that accepts reservations :. Nina — http://chaotropic.net C’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot.                         Louis Pasteur

Response:

I recall reading that Josh will be down there, as will I, anyone else making the trip or any NO locals still reading RAB? Misha, Todd? I’m thinking maybe Ralph and Kuckoo’s Saturday afternoon. If anyone is interested. The blackened gator there is to die for. — Chumley The Happy Clown "Human affairs are like a chess game: only those that do not take it seriously can be called good players." — Hung Tzu-ch’eng

Response:

Please, let’s go someplace that accepts reservations :.

<looks around innocently — Chumley The Happy Clown "Human affairs are like a chess game: only those that do not take it seriously can be called good players." — Hung Tzu-ch’eng

Response:

Well, I believe the -other- Nina will be in Chicago from the 11th on. So maybe we can do a munch thing on Sunday? Sunday would be cool. There is a researchers’ reception, but I was planning on dropping that anyways because they don’t really have food and I don’t know anyone.

yeah! FOOD OVER SCIENCE! *ahem* very cool. ninaninamunch #2  :D sunday afternoon would be fine by me. can i bring my unmodded guy? nina — if    the    doors    of    perception    were    cleansed every   thing   would   appear   to   man   as   it   is – i  n  f  i  n  i  t  e.                    - william blake ::::::::::::::: http://home.balcab.ch/nis ::::::::::::::::

Response:

yeah! FOOD OVER SCIENCE! *ahem* very cool. ninaninamunch #2  :D sunday afternoon would be fine by me. can i bring my unmodded guy?

Of course. The Chicago munches actually have a pretty solid tradition of having at least one completely unmodified person at them. So how does everyone feel about Mongolian BBQ? |+/-1 — www.voteNader.org www.manwoman.net/swastika/index.html www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm  *** Bring down THE MAN to respond ***

Response:

sunday afternoon would be fine by me. can i bring my unmodded guy? Of course. The Chicago munches actually have a pretty solid tradition of having at least one completely unmodified person at them. So how does everyone feel about Mongolian BBQ?

i’ve never had mongolian food, and i’m always enthusiastic about trying new cuisines, so .. yeah! unless it’s very very spicy? nina — if    the    doors    of    perception    were    cleansed every   thing   would   appear   to   man   as   it   is – i  n  f  i  n  i  t  e.                    - william blake ::::::::::::::: http://home.balcab.ch/nis ::::::::::::::::

Response:

Of course. The Chicago munches actually have a pretty solid tradition of having at least one completely unmodified person at them. So how does everyone feel about Mongolian BBQ?

Dunno. Sounds like MEAT which is fine by me I had a super-greasy mongolian filled pancake yesterday (Yay for lipfinity. That stuff is unbelievable.) I am going to the polynesian pavilion at the expo (www.expo2000.de- what, you Americans never heard of it? Your country claimed they had no money to come ) today and see if I can spot some cool tattoos . Nina — http://chaotropic.net C’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot.                         Louis Pasteur

Response:

Question:

heeheehee The appointment started like many before it. I arrived at Villian’s Tattoo and Bodypiercing with about 10 minutes to spare. Then I had to endure more waiting.  Devin was finishing up the tattoo he was already working on before my arrival.   After about 20 minutes, he emerged from the back hall and it was time. We went over the design and double checked measurements again. Ends up there was a mistake in the measurement and he has to shrink the design down a bit. (I have tiny wrists) I have to say that this was by far my least painful tattoo. It was high enough up my arm that it was in a fairly fleshy area. I am sooo ready for full sleeves now!  :D The inside was a bit more tender than the outside, but still minimal discomfort. We chatted a lot, as usual, and I found out that he and Johnna are opening their own shop across town in two weeks. It will be called Liquid Courage. He took his time and the piece turned out beautifully. It is a delicate swirly-like metal look bracelet with 5 oval stones. As soon as it has healed, I will have a pic up on my tattoo page and post a link. Devin gave me a free T-Shirt (gotta love being a custom client) and knocked a bit off the price (gotta love being a repeat customer) I had free tickets to a local band’s CD release party tonight, and went almost straight to it after promising Devin I wouldn’t go in the pit. The music was awesome, my tattoo is beautiful, and i got free tickets to next weeks show because I have cool tattoos. hahahahaha Life rocks. So… if they ever make it big, watch out for a Band named Three Day Meat Sale. And… Devin of Liquid Courage in Omaha Ne is an awesome artist. now i must stop my side-winding babble and sleep. —Angie a.k.a. D-Strss

Response:

Love the name of that band…. said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -heeheehee The appointment started like many before it. I arrived at Villian’s Tattoo and Bodypiercing with about 10 minutes to spare. Then I had to endure more waiting.  Devin was finishing up the tattoo he was already working on before my arrival.   After about 20 minutes, he emerged from the back hall and it was time. We went over the design and double checked measurements again. Ends up there was a mistake in the measurement and he has to shrink the design down a bit. (I have tiny wrists) I have to say that this was by far my least painful tattoo. It was high enough up my arm that it was in a fairly fleshy area. I am sooo ready for full sleeves now! The inside was a bit more tender than the outside, but still minimal discomfort. We chatted a lot, as usual, and I found out that he and Johnna are opening their own shop across town in two weeks. It will be called Liquid Courage. He took his time and the piece turned out beautifully. It is a delicate swirly-like metal look bracelet with 5 oval stones. As soon as it has healed, I will have a pic up on my tattoo page and post a link. Devin gave me a free T-Shirt (gotta love being a custom client) and knocked a bit off the price (gotta love being a repeat customer) I had free tickets to a local band’s CD release party tonight, and went almost straight to it after promising Devin I wouldn’t go in the pit. The music was awesome, my tattoo is beautiful, and i got free tickets to next weeks show because I have cool tattoos. hahahahaha Life rocks. So… if they ever make it big, watch out for a Band named Three Day Meat Sale. And… Devin of Liquid Courage in Omaha Ne is an awesome artist. now i must stop my side-winding babble and sleep. —Angie a.k.a. D-Strss

Response:

Love the name of that band….

3 Day Meat Sale has a new CD coming out in June "Can’t Beat The Meat" ontopic: my tattoo is at the tail end of onion-skin stage. should have a picture sometime this next week and will post a link. currently working on the design for the wide armband in a similar style. —Angie a.k.a. D-Strss

Response:

Question:

hello i  have my frenum and both of my nipples pierced. i think they are all very sexy and very very pleasurable! What piercing do you think is sex? and most pleasurable?

Response:

hello i  have my frenum and both of my nipples pierced. i think they are all very sexy and very very pleasurable! What piercing do you think is sex? and most pleasurable?

Well, I don’t think that there are any piercings that ARE the embodiment of sex, but some enhance the act. Sara — http://sarasworld.istcool.de "you can look at my cover all you want.  there’s even a bunch of pictures  on it to help you figure out what’s inside." – josh burdette, 4/16/99

Response:

hello i  have my frenum and both of my nipples pierced. i think they are all very sexy and very very pleasurable! What piercing do you think is sex?

none of them.  now, which one do i think is the sexiest?  easy:  the septum. i just love to play around in man’s nose and pull out his retainer and lick the boogers off. nothing like a real man’s boogers, let me tell you! david http://hometown.aol.com/stickneedlesinme/myhomepage/index.html I’ll be impressed when somebody puts out a cigarette in his *eye*.  While on a unicycle.   Playing "Lady of Spain" on pan pipes.   –Meghan, rec.arts.bodyart 11/22/99

Response:

DG nothing like a real man’s boogers, let me DG tell you!         paraphrasing ol’ hank rollins: what’s the difference between a REAL man’s boogers & a FAKE man’s boogers?         (the original monologue deals with lesbians & the attitude of "she just hasn’t been with a REAL man yet", & the difference between a ‘real’ & a ‘fake’ man’s erection.) lish 33.2% / 32

Response:

DG nothing like a real man’s boogers, let me DG tell you!    paraphrasing ol’ hank rollins: what’s the difference between a REAL man’s boogers & a FAKE man’s boogers?    (the original monologue deals with lesbians & the attitude of "she just hasn’t been with a REAL man yet", & the difference between a ‘real’ & a ‘fake’ man’s erection.)

Rollins sucks more ass than I can possibly imagine. Goddamn burroughs-rip-off bullshit dicksmack cocksucking bitchass. Goddamnit, p0ok

Response:

hello i  have my frenum and both of my nipples pierced. i think they are all very sexy and very very pleasurable! What piercing do you think is sex? and most pleasurable

personally, i think almost all piercings are sexy…..even on guys. not that im turned on by a dude, but it does look good. theres just something about a person that is willing to mod thier body and enjoy it. the only piercings i dont find sexy are the ones that people get to be "in" or "trendy"…..you can usually spot these people right away and it disgusts me.

Response:

Also sprach i’ll teach you to turn away.:    paraphrasing ol’ hank rollins: what’s the difference between a REAL man’s boogers & a FAKE man’s boogers?    (the original monologue deals with lesbians & the attitude of "she just hasn’t been with a REAL man yet", & the difference between a ‘real’ & a ‘fake’ man’s erection.)

heh……i originally read that as "ol’ hank williams"……made it a bit more interesting……  8P — bert the destroyer! LMSGU Worldwide

Response:

Those idiots make me want to take out my piercings. Actually I took out my tongue piercing about 6 months ago after having it for over 3 years. It seems like now everyone and their mother has their tongue pierced, when back in early ‘96 when I got mine done I only knew one other person who had theirs done (and that was someone I met at a rave in another state). Ah well, the bright side of it is that after having my tongue pierced for over three years, and now not having it, oral sex is like a whole new adventure I’m glad tragi piercings aren’t becoming popular. Although everyone who sees mine are like "They are soo neat! I want one!". Yeah fuck you too. Ben – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – personally, i think almost all piercings are sexy…..even on guys. not that im turned on by a dude, but it does look good. theres just something about a person that is willing to mod thier body and enjoy it. the only piercings i dont find sexy are the ones that people get to be "in" or "trendy"…..you can usually spot these people right away and it disgusts me.

Response:

I’m glad tragi piercings aren’t becoming popular. Although everyone who sees mine are like "They are soo neat! I want one!". Yeah fuck you too.

Don’t speak too soon!  At my high school during my senior year they became trendy to have.  Ugh.  I had so many of the ‘popular’ girls come up to me and ask about it, they thought it was so cute, they wanted one. ****** Kellie <A HREF="http://kellie.gq.nu/"kellie.gq.nu</A "The whole world is a playground, it’s big and round, goes round and round." –PErFect ThYroID

Response:

K Don’t speak too soon!  At my high school during my senior year they became K trendy to have.  Ugh.  I had so many of the ‘popular’ girls come up to me K ask about it, they thought it was so cute, they wanted one.         what the fuck’s the difference? you kids who take out piercings because they’ve become trendy are just as bad as the people who GET piercings because they’re trendy.         do it (or don’t do it) for YOU, not for society, or your peers, or your SO, or your mom. lish 33.2% / 32

Response:

K Don’t speak too soon!  At my high school during my senior year they became K trendy to have.  Ugh.  I had so many of the ‘popular’ girls come up to me K ask about it, they thought it was so cute, they wanted one.    what the fuck’s the difference? you kids who take out piercings because they’ve become trendy are just as bad as the people who GET piercings because they’re trendy.    do it (or don’t do it) for YOU, not for society, or your peers, or your SO, or your mom.

  it just bothers me to see those people at my school get something because its cool.   i do get piercings for me and only me.  hehe… my ex-boyfriend was pissed about that too… while we were going out he got his nipple pierced, then wanted me to get mine done.  i said never in a million years would anyone poke a whole through my nipples.  then eventually i did.  after we broke up. ****** Kellie <A HREF="http://kellie.gq.nu/"kellie.gq.nu</A "The whole world is a playground, it’s big and round, goes round and round." –PErFect ThYroID

Response:

K Don’t speak too soon!  At my high school during my senior year they became K trendy to have.  Ugh.  I had so many of the ‘popular’ girls come up to me    what the fuck’s the difference? you kids who take out piercings because they’ve become trendy are just as bad as the people who GET piercings because they’re trendy.

Yup.  Just one word: ‘Sneetches’ — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan Schwarz              |  "Pretty soon it will be chic to be geek"

Response:

Yup.  Just one word: ‘Sneetches’

        http://www.angelfire.com/stars/nixy Robin

Response:

S Yup.  Just one word: S ‘Sneetches’         goddamn it, stan, you’re one of the few people on this group whose posts i always like reading. werd to the sneeches, y0.         speaking of YOU, i particularly enjoyed: keith: *** If ya ain’t part of the solution…  stan: … then you’re the precipitate. lish 33.2% / 32

Response:

hello i  have my frenum and both of my nipples pierced. i think they are all very sexy and very very pleasurable! What piercing do you think is sex? and most pleasurable

A well healed one! NN.

Response:

(Stan) writes: Yup.  Just one word: ‘Sneetches’

I always liked that book…. that and the Lorax Later, Starr Pain is good…. it lets you know you’re not dead yet

Response:

hello i  have my frenum and both of my nipples pierced. i think they are all very sexy and very very pleasurable! What piercing do you think is sex? and most pleasurable A well healed one! NN.

I couldn’t agree more….but i have to add: A well healed one with proper jewelry in it…. Gary Menard piercer/manager Way Cool Tattoos Uptown http://www.waycool.on.ca/uptown

Response:

Question:

hey..i hope somone can help me out on this one..ive been askin just about everyone and getting different answers..well i had my labret pierced about a month ago and i took it out and it healed up and now im getting it done again but i was wonderin if u can pierce the same spot twice??? i mean the litle scar i have from it is in the perfect spot but if i couldnt pierce it there then would i be able to just move up or down??? i really want it in the same spot its perfect??? well if u no please email me or im me  or reply on here but i dont no if ill ever be able to find this damn thing again!!!!! thanx!! ~katie~

Response:

i’m all for smoking pot, but this 420 thing is THE most retarded drug related nonsense i’ve ever been exposed to. thank you. j — What is moral is what you feel good after doing and what is immoral is what you feel bad after.  –  Ernest Hemingway

Response:

j says: i’m all for smoking pot, but this 420 thing is THE most retarded drug related nonsense i’ve ever been exposed to.

Oh- so this means I’ll have to return the 420 shirt I bought you for xmas. <g Erica "Truth, like morality is a relative affair: there are no facts, only interpretions." -Nietzsche  

Response:

K everyone and getting different answers..well i had my labret pierced abou         you didn’t have your labret pierced, you goddamned useless idiot.         you had your labrum pierced, or you received a labret piercing. lish 33.2% / 32

Response:

Lish wrote<<you had your labrum pierced Or your lower Orbicularis oris muscle! she will probly remember that better! -keith

Response:

j says: i’m all for smoking pot, but this 420 thing is THE most retarded drug related nonsense i’ve ever been exposed to.

ahh, but it gives you an excuse to smoke, twice a day, everyday. ****** Kellie "The whole world is a playground, it’s big and round, goes round and round." –PErFect ThYroID

Response:

j says: i’m all for smoking pot, but this 420 thing is THE most retarded drug related nonsense i’ve ever been exposed to. Oh- so this means I’ll have to return the 420 shirt I bought you for xmas. <g

um, yes. unless you don’t mind giving it to me, just so i can sell it on ebay:) you know, more money for jewelry and ink. j

Response:

hey..i hope somone can help me out on this one..ive been askin just about everyone and getting different answers..well i had my labret pierced about a month ago and i took it out and it healed up and now im getting it done again but i was wonderin if u can pierce the same spot twice??? i mean the litle scar i have from it is in the perfect spot but if i couldnt pierce it there then would i be able to just move up or down??? i really want it in the same spot its perfect??? well if u no please email me or im me  or reply on here but i dont no if ill ever be able to find this damn thing again!!!!! thanx!! ~katie~

Yes you can pierce in the same spot. Gary Menard piercer/manager Way Cool Tattoos Uptown http://www.waycool.on.ca/uptown

Response:

A good 420 faq is at http://www.phish.net/PhishFAQ/n420.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – j says: i’m all for smoking pot, but this 420 thing is THE most retarded drug related nonsense i’ve ever been exposed to. ahh, but it gives you an excuse to smoke, twice a day, everyday. ****** Kellie "The whole world is a playground, it’s big and round, goes round and round." –PErFect ThYroID

  reidk.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

A good 420 faq is at http://www.phish.net/PhishFAQ/n420.html

ok man, stop it with that vcard stuff, it’s irritating:) j — What is moral is what you feel good after doing and what is immoral is what you feel bad after.  –  Ernest Hemingway

Response:

Question:

Say you have a relatively short tongue and want a fairly-far back center piercing, I hear that can be done by having a piercing that slants forward [the exit on the bottom is farther forward than the entrance on the top].  Is this any riskier than a completely horizontal piercing? Any advice would be appreciated–Thanks JWH

Response:

Say you have a relatively short tongue and want a fairly-far back center piercing, I hear that can be done by having a piercing that slants forward [the exit on the bottom is farther forward than the entrance on the top].  Is this any riskier than a completely horizontal piercing? Any advice would be appreciated–Thanks

Yes, this can cause a problem. When a tongue is pierced perpendicular to the surface, the jewelry naturally rests at a slight angle in the mouth because of the shape of the tongue. This is typically not problematic. When the piercing is done at an angle, the jewelry rests at more of an angle when in the mouth. This can cause the bottom ball to rest/rub against the gums. This can result in gum erosion and bone loss. These things are often not detectible except by an x-ray and the damage is irrerversible. The anatomy of the body should determine appropriate placement for the piercing. If the piercing can not be done where you want it because of the anatomy, you should either not have the piercing done or simply accept where the piercing should go. Best of luck. Derek Lowe Body Work Productions, Inc. Cleveland, OH www.bodyworkprod.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – JWH

Response:

Say you have a relatively short tongue and want a fairly-far back center piercing, I hear that can be done by having a piercing that slants forward [the exit on the bottom is farther forward than the entrance on the top].  Is this any riskier than a completely horizontal piercing? Any advice would be appreciated–Thanks

  It’s certainly possible to do, but i really wouldn’t recommend it. It’s not that it’s that risky, but that because it goes through so much tissue at such an odd angle it will take a long time to heal if it heals at all. — LordMonkey   "God Shmod! I want my monkey man!" -Bart Simpson http://www.saruarts.com   -LM’s Art Gallery http://www.bmeworld.com/lordmonk -LM’s BodMod site Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, this can cause a problem. When a tongue is pierced perpendicular to the surface, the jewelry naturally rests at a slight angle in the mouth because of the shape of the tongue. This is typically not problematic. When the piercing is done at an angle, the jewelry rests at more of an angle when in the mouth. This can cause the bottom ball to rest/rub against the gums. This can result in gum erosion and bone loss. These things are often not detectible except by an x-ray and the damage is irrerversible. The anatomy of the body should determine appropriate placement for the piercing. If the piercing can not be done where you want it because of the anatomy, you should either not have the piercing done or simply accept where the piercing should go. Best of luck.

That’s an even better answer than i gave. Listen to this guy ^_^ — LordMonkey   "God Shmod! I want my monkey man!" -Bart Simpson http://www.saruarts.com   -LM’s Art Gallery http://www.bmeworld.com/lordmonk -LM’s BodMod site Before you buy.

Response:

Say you have a relatively short tongue and want a fairly-far back center piercing, I hear that can be done by having a piercing that slants forward [the exit on the bottom is farther forward than the entrance on the top].  Is this any riskier than a completely horizontal piercing? Any advice would be appreciated–Thanks JWH

If the angle is too severe, as the barbell positions itself in your tongue, it will cause tears in your tongue.  For the most part, over time, the piercing will try to "correct" itself so you should be very careful. Gary Menard piercer/manager Way Cool Tattoos Uptown http://www.waycool.on.ca/uptown

Response:

Question:

I have a madison and some piercings in my upper back.Both of which have been there for about 6 months with no sign of rejection or migration. The problem is they won’t fully heal. The neck keeps spitting out scabs and keloid deposits which eventually die and break off. The back keeps scabbing and forming blisters and keloid lumps where the piercings exit.They too die and then reform. Any Idea what this is and how to get rid of it? ~Preacher~

Response:

I have a madison and some piercings in my upper back.Both of which have been there for about 6 months with no sign of rejection or migration. The problem is they won’t fully heal. The neck keeps spitting out scabs and keloid deposits which eventually die and break off. The back keeps scabbing and forming blisters and keloid lumps where the piercings exit.They too die and then reform. Any Idea what this is and how to get rid of it? ~Preacher~

It all depends on what is in these piercings as well as gauge and placement…….but the main thing about surface piercings like yours is that they are very bitchy…..there are a very small percentage that will survive the pressure and movement that they are subjected to every day….also, what are you using to clean them with?? Gary Menard piercer/manager Way Cool Tattoos Uptown http://www.waycool.on.ca/uptown

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Question:

Well, lemme just start out by saying that I’m *finally* getting my tattoo started, by the very talented Kari Barba.. but anyways.. this is going to be my first tattoo… Anyways – the question, its going to be done in sessions… how should I tip? I was thinking, after each session, then possibly a bigger tip at the end of each session… And how much should I tip? I’m guessing the sessions will be around 300$ each.. Thanx! Erica "Truth, like morality is a relative affair: there are no facts, only interpretions." -Nietzsche  

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E Well, lemme just start out by saying that I’m *finally* getting my tattoo E started, by the very talented Kari Barba.. but anyways.. this is going to         i’d very much like to see photos when you get going on it. kari is on my list, after all. E Anyways – the question, its going to be done in sessions… how should I t E was thinking, after each session, then possibly a bigger tip at the end of E session… And how much should I tip? I’m guessing the sessions will be ar E 300$ each..         i usually tip after each session; you might consider cash for the first two & then start taking her brownies or something. be creative. anyone can give money, but customers are remembered when they go to some effort. lish 33.2% / 32

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   i’d very much like to see photos when you get going on it. kari is on my list, after all.

Sure will do, I’ll have them up on my page when I get them done.    i usually tip after each session; you might consider cash for the first two & then start taking her brownies or something. be creative. anyone can give money, but customers are remembered when they go to some effort.

Ah, thanx for the advice. Now I just gotta figure out what she likes to eat. lish

Erica "Truth, like morality is a relative affair: there are no facts, only interpretions." -Nietzsche  

Response:

Well, lemme just start out by saying that I’m *finally* getting my tattoo started, by the very talented Kari Barba.. but anyways.. this is going to be my first tattoo… Anyways – the question, its going to be done in sessions… how should I tip? I was thinking, after each session, then possibly a bigger tip at the end of each session… And how much should I tip? I’m guessing the sessions will be around 300$ each..

Before he started refusing it, I was tipping Kenny 15-20% on every session.  It depended on what he was doing, and how much I could afford. Just an observation… There are many other ways to show your appreciation of the artists work besides tips.  Someone (lish?) mentioned cookies and the like which is especially good because cookies can be passed out to other artists/co-workers and sycophants (like me) who just hang out at the shop.  Do they have other interests?  Kenny likes the work of a peticular sculptor.  Someone (in addition to tipping no less) picked one up for him.  That showed appreciation more than the tip.   A woman who Kenny worked on was inspired to begin drawing again after 10 or so years of not doing any.  Her first work was really outstanding.  She gave it to Kenny to thank him for the push to start up again.   He put it up in his room and if you ask him about it he will _not_shutup_about_it.   Cash is nice, but there are other things that are better.  Put some effort into your "thank you". Note: the above is for a certain type of canvas.  you know who you are.  if youre getting a taz, or the Cherry Creak rose pushed into your ass, just tip 20%, grovel for a while and get out. sockpuppet 50% cotton 50% polyester

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Anyways – the question, its going to be done in sessions… how should I tip? I was thinking, after each session, then possibly a bigger tip at the end of each session… And how much should I tip? I’m guessing the sessions will be around 300$ each.. Just an observation… There are many other ways to show your appreciation of the artists work besides tips.  Someone (lish?) mentioned cookies and the like which is especially good because cookies can be passed out to other artists/co-workers and sycophants (like me) who just hang out at the shop.  Do they have other interests?  

If you talk to them and see what they like in general, you can come up with some pretty good ideas. Flowers and cookies/brownies are a good stand by if you don’t have alot of extra cash to be giving away. I myself know that my tattoo artist does alot of artsy stuff, so buying her some clay, handmade paper or special paints (or something along those lines) would probably get a thumbs up. I just made Hansi a huge 4 x 4" vanilla scented candle which she loved. She’s already dropping hints for another one. If it’s something that you’ve made especially for them, I think it carries alot more weight. —  raven- is diana cascioli | Hail to the speaker,         GW Graphic Design | Hail to the knower,       bmeworld.com/raven2 | Joy to him who has understood, gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~raven | Delight to those who have listened. -Havamal

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Ah, thanx for the advice. Now I just gotta figure out what she likes to eat.

in two sessions of conversation that shouldn’t be difficult…. AND just to say it…..DAMN I AM JEALOUS!….. congrats and let us know about the progress and some pics if possible…. R.Knox…..aka RevPhule light travels faster than sound,  isn’t that why some people appear bright until you hear them speak?

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Note: the above is for a certain type of canvas.  you know who you are.  if youre getting a taz, or the Cherry Creak rose pushed into your ass, just tip 20%, grovel for a while and get out. sockpuppet 50% cotton 50% polyester

You know some of my coolest tips and …even more of my coolest clients came from flash……don’t discount the industry backbone… R.Knox…..aka RevPhule light travels faster than sound,  isn’t that why some people appear bright until you hear them speak?

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R You know some of my coolest tips and …even more of my coolest clients ca R from flash……don’t discount the industry backbone…         so what were some of your coolest tips? i’m always open to new tip ideas. lish 33.2% / 32

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyways – the question, its going to be done in sessions… how should I tip? I was thinking, after each session, then possibly a bigger tip at the end of each session… And how much should I tip? I’m guessing the sessions will be around 300$ each.. Just an observation… There are many other ways to show your appreciation of the artists work besides tips.  Someone (lish?) mentioned cookies and the like which is especially good because cookies can be passed out to other artists/co-workers and sycophants (like me) who just hang out at the shop.  Do they have other interests?   If you talk to them and see what they like in general, you can come up with some pretty good ideas. Flowers and cookies/brownies are a good stand by if you don’t have alot of extra cash to be giving away. I myself know that my tattoo artist does alot of artsy stuff, so buying her some clay, handmade paper or special paints (or something along those lines) would probably get a thumbs up. I just made Hansi a huge 4 x 4" vanilla scented candle which she loved. She’s already dropping hints for another one. If it’s something that you’ve made especially for them, I think it carries alot more weight. — raven- is diana cascioli | Hail to the speaker,        GW Graphic Design | Hail to the knower,      bmeworld.com/raven2 | Joy to him who has understood, gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~raven | Delight to those who have listened. -Havamal

Also this method/approach lets the artist know that you listen to them…..and that they are not just another service provider…. Gary Menard piercer/manager Way Cool Tattoos Uptown http://www.waycool.on.ca/uptown

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R You know some of my coolest tips and …even more of my coolest clients ca R from flash……don’t discount the industry backbone… so what were some of your coolest tips? i’m always open to new tip ideas.

you asked,,,, funniest….my 40 sumthing divorced housewife clients…(I think they are a sewing group too)…sent me a stripper ..they all have a couple  of small roses and butterflies… just some odd memorable ones a Navy guy I did an off the wall USN tat on tipped me $10 and gave me a tribal Tatu mask he got over seas off the wall yellow rose and Texas….gave me a 1995 autographed by the team Cowboys game jersey Cherry Creek black panther …a full body massage..(it had been really busy and the guy noticed my back was stiff….so he sent a masseuse down the next day) full home cooked meal….a mother brought it to me at the shop after I tattooed her daughter and we talked about how much I missed real food…a small rose on the ankle the kanji for love…..a hand craved dragon sculpture R.Knox…..aka RevPhule light travels faster than sound,  isn’t that why some people appear bright until you hear them speak?

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