Question:

I’m a caucasian male (well past my teens!) planning and trying to design my first tattoo.  I am certain about the following characteristics:  * A bird (generic, unspecified) – symbolizing for me freedom, speed, wisdom (think owl!), joy of life.  * No colors; black only.  * Size propably 8-12 cm (3-5 in.)  * Placement: outside left shoulder  * Aesthetical, strong, long-term pleasing design – a "work of art" rather than realistic picture of a bird.   ) Haven’t decided on the following:  * Pure black-and-white or greyscale?  * Influences from either tribal/mayan/nordic mythology-styling ( – which I do like…) ? I’m thinking somthing like bird in flight with the wing(s) maybe just reaching the back of my arm/shoulder… But could also be inspired by standing, Middle Ages-kind of . Or more abstract part-of-bird elements (eye, feathers, wings or beak etc.) That’s a pretty wide playing field I know! – but I’ll gladly accept all kinds of inspiration (or advice – I’ve read the r.a.b FAQ), maybe send me pictures/links ( sajmondk at yahoo.com ) Once I have worked out a drawing to my own satisfaction, I will of course bring it to one or more shops to decide on an artist and have him/her approve whether it is compatible with tattooing techniques… — Thank you very much Simon, Denmark

Response:

Oops; unfinished part should read: "But could also be inspired by standing, Middle Ages-kind of coat-of-arms animal figures." — Simon

Response:

S That’s a pretty wide playing field I know! – but I’ll gladly accept all S kinds of inspiration (or advice – I’ve read the r.a.b FAQ), maybe send S me pictures/links ( sajmondk at yahoo.com )         why do you think we want to help?         just go to the shop with your big list of musts & have the artist design something for you. lish                                          "you’re worth your weight 39.3% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

Response:

   why do you think we want to help?

I don’t dare to "think" anything, I can only hope… – Seeking advice from people more experienced than yourself is, I believe, a sound and accetable use of NG’s, "cranky"  ;o) — Simon

Response:

That’s a pretty wide playing field I know! – but I’ll gladly accept all kinds of inspiration (or advice – I’ve read the r.a.b FAQ), maybe send me pictures/links ( sajmondk at yahoo.com )

i’ve got a book that has some designs you may like.  it’s called "design motifs of ancient mexico" by jorge enciso.  it’s available through amazon: http://tinyurl.com/27rd2 and a word of advice, since you said you’d accept all kinds: don’t ask people to email you things when you’ve posted your request in a newsgroup.  come back and read the responses you get.  we’re not your personal mailing service.  

Response:

      why do you think we want to help?

S I don’t dare to "think" anything, I can only hope… S – Seeking advice from people more experienced than yourself is, I S believe, a sound and accetable use of NG’s, "cranky"  ;o)         there isn’t anyone here more experienced than me.         & i gave you the perfect advice, which you snipped. so you’re welcome.         i hope you don’t think that "cranky" thing was at all original. lish                            "& help’s not short when you’re digging 39.3% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

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      why do you think we want to help? S I don’t dare to "think" anything, I can only hope… S – Seeking advice from people more experienced than yourself is, I S believe, a sound and accetable use of NG’s, "cranky"  ;o)    there isn’t anyone here more experienced than me.

    "I little modesty might suit you better, Mozart." – from a great movie.     And Leesh, i think what he meant by "yourself", he actually meant "himself".    & i gave you the perfect advice, which you snipped. so you’re welcome.    i hope you don’t think that "cranky" thing was at all original.

       Ghod, but doesn’t the name fit like a glove? Slick

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S – Seeking advice from people more experienced than yourself is, I S believe, a sound and accetable use of NG’s, "cranky"  ;o)       there isn’t anyone here more experienced than me.     And Leesh, i think what he meant by "yourself", he actually meant "himself".

Yes, that was what I meant…  :)       & i gave you the perfect advice, which you snipped.

 - because I didn’t have any immediate comments on it. That doesn’t mean I didn’t read it and took it into consideration. If I forgot to thank you, I’m sorry:  Thanks.       i hope you don’t think that "cranky" thing was at all original.

I only expressed my thougts; whether it was original is not important to me… — All the best Simon, Denmark

Response:

some designs you may like.  it’s called "design motifs of ancient mexico" by jorge enciso.  

Thank you, this looks promising – have made a reservation with my library for that…. and a word of advice (…) don’t ask people to email you things (…) come back and read the responses you get.

Oh – I am here and reading!  ;o)  I only gave my email in case someone had a picture on their own computer they felt like sharing in that way. But thanks for the heads up. — Simon, Denmark

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S – Seeking advice from people more experienced than yourself is, I S believe, a sound and accetable use of NG’s, "cranky"  ;o)     there isn’t anyone here more experienced than me.     And Leesh, i think what he meant by "yourself", he actually meant "himself".

S Yes, that was what I meant…  :)         yes, i caught your meaning. my statement remains.     & i gave you the perfect advice, which you snipped.

S  - because I didn’t have any immediate comments on it. That doesn’t mean S I didn’t read it and took it into consideration. If I forgot to thank S you, I’m sorry:  Thanks.         YOU ARE WELCOME AGAIN!         even if you’re not. lish                                     "you seem to be on a different 39.3% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

Response:

some designs you may like.  it’s called "design motifs of ancient mexico" by jorge enciso.   Thank you, this looks promising – have made a reservation with my library for that….

there’s a lot of good artwork in there if you like the aztec and mayan styles.  i’ve got one tattoo from a piece in there, and have plans for three more (one of which will be modified to incorporate the one i’ve already got).   and a word of advice (…) don’t ask people to email you things (…) come back and read the responses you get. Oh – I am here and reading!  ;o)  I only gave my email in case someone had a picture on their own computer they felt like sharing in that way. But thanks for the heads up.

it’s just a pet peeve of mine, and i know i’m not the only one.  you didn’t flat out ask for people to email you everything, so i’m sure you’re capable of learning

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S That’s a pretty wide playing field I know! – but I’ll gladly accept all S kinds of inspiration (or advice – I’ve read the r.a.b FAQ), maybe send S me pictures/links ( sajmondk at yahoo.com ) why do you think we want to help? just go to the shop with your big list of musts & have the artist design something for you.

I agree, if you do that you can sit down and explain it all and get exactly what you want.  It worked for me, most of my stuff is just slightly modded flash, but when my wife and I decided to get identical snake tattoo’s done and there was nothing we liked they designed one for us while we waited!  We just said we want that sort of style, but that sort of shape etc and they were happy to design it for us. Dean

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Question:

Once again summer is nigh, so for college students like myself planning for time wasting is essential.  But as we all know, time spent making chili is not wasted time at all.  So what’s your favorite recipe?   either post it or email it to me.  If desired I will be more than happy to compile and maintain the definitive AGA Chili FAQ. -Hugh "Se

Question:

A friend is thinking about starting the body decoration process and she is convinced she wants a toe-ring inked on instead of buying an actual ring… Anybody out there have any experience with toe-tattoo’s?  Seems to me that it wouldn’t be a very good surface?? Thanks, Kurt — Kurt Johnson M.A.                            Department of Sociology    

Response:

A friend is thinking about starting the body decoration process and she is convinced she wants a toe-ring inked on instead of buying an actual ring… Anybody out there have any experience with toe-tattoo’s?  Seems to me that it wouldn’t be a very good surface??

Nothing wrong with tattooing a toe.  Just make sure she/he finds an artist who reularly works on feet. It is a very strange area to work on for people who don’t do it all the time and I have seen a lot of spreading and fade problems. Aarron http://www.angelfire.com/wa/tattooist

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Hi, Feet get a lot of wear, esp. if the foot’s owner wears shoes and/or socks that will rub against the tattoo.  (As opposed to sandals) I’ve seen beautiful foot tats that need constant touchups, and the touchups stop looking nice after a while.  (I don’t know if this is true with all toe-toos.) Your friend might not like rings marketed as toe rings.  I have a size 3 baby ring on my second toe of my left foot.  It hasn’t fallen off, and I’ve had it on for 6 years. I hope that your friend decides to join the "body decoration process" anyway A friend is thinking about starting the body decoration process and she is convinced she wants a toe-ring inked on instead of buying an actual ring… Anybody out there have any experience with toe-tattoo’s?  Seems to me that it wouldn’t be a very good surface?? Thanks, Kurt — Kurt Johnson M.A.                            Department of Sociology Nebraska-Lincoln

– ( * ) <sings I have a tail, I have a tail <G http://members.aol.com/ta2intl/tattoo.htm www.askjeeves.com — the search engine to beat all search engines http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/text/faq/usenet/bodyart/netiquette/faq…. rec.arts.bodyart Welcome & Netiquette FAQ if you need help :

Question:

i recently had some work done by tim wallace, who works out of juli moon’s place in seabrook.  overall i was satisfied with the piece (a 13th c. stained glass window of mary magdalene) except for a lump on her face, some bad coloring problems and this stupid white outline he insisted on giving the entire piece.  i suppose in some respects i’m responsible for the outcome of the tat, but he was very forceful about his ideas and rushed through the each session. he refused to fix the lump or to color over the white outline without me paying him at least another $50 on top of the $300 i already paid him. his attitude about the mistakes was really unprofessional, claiming that "no tattoo is perfect" and that "until they make a machine that makes tattoos, you shouldn’t expect a perfect tattoo."  i find that kind of interesting since out of the seven tattoos i have (his included), six are perfect.  i was so pissed off that i just left.  i know i should have talked to juli, the owner of the studio, but i figured she’d just back him up.  i wound up finding someone who was willing to fix it for less than $50 and he was great, although he discovered that the original piece does have a bit of blow-out.   i’m obviously unhappy with the treatment i got from tim otherwise i wouldn’t be posting this… does anyone out there know of any other recourse i could take?  i suppose i should just suck it up and deal, eh?  –

Response:

Amanda I am most surprised with the tattooist’s attitide. Knowing Juli, She usually has the utmost respect towards her clients and expects her staff to do the same. I would go back  and let either Susan, the manager, or Juli know the circumstances of the event. I;m confident they would rather deal with it than having you post it to the world. Let me know how you made out. Roget

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i recently had some work done by tim wallace, who works out of juli moon’s place in seabrook.  overall i was satisfied with the piece (a 13th c. stained glass window of mary magdalene) except for a lump on her face, some bad coloring problems and this stupid white outline he insisted on giving the entire piece.

You don’t mention the size of this piece. If you asked for something small, or with intricate details, or a lot of blue or white (in the face), for that matter… there can be a lot of reasons why you’d get a lump (even some well respected artists have been known to overwork a white or blued area on bad days) and coloring problems are common enough that most artists offer free touch ups after the tattoo is healed. You also are responsible for making the decisions for your own tattoo – if he "insisted", as you say, you could have walked out.  No one forced you to have white where you didn’t want it – you had to have agreed. Also, Tim (who has cheaper prices than anyone else at the shop) is the shops "junior" tattooist.  That doesn’t mean he isn’t a good tattooist, however he doesn’t have the experience the others at Juli’s have. You get what you pay for.  i suppose in some respects i’m responsible for the outcome of the tat, but he was very forceful about his ideas and rushed through the each session.

Oh PLEEEEZE!  If by "forceful about his ideas" you mean he insisted that the detail you wanted demanded a larger piece, I could see this – I’ve been there when he’s had to talk someone into a larger piece (with Juli’s blessings) because the size they asked for was going to result in a tatttoo that looked like colorful soup. If Tim suggested that the tattoo would look better with a white outline, he probably asked everyone in the shop their opinion first. He doesn’t force his aesthetics on anyone – he’s too new to tattooing. he refused to fix the lump or to color over the white outline without me paying him at least another $50 on top of the $300 i already paid him.

If you’d asked him to touch up the white (which you’d ultimately agreed to, despite your protestations to the contrary), I’m sure he’d have done it for nothing. You were asking him to do more tattooing, and his time is money. As for fixing the lump – I’d like to know how anyone does that. his attitude about the mistakes was really unprofessional, claiming that "no tattoo is perfect" and that "until they make a machine that makes tattoos, you shouldn’t expect a perfect tattoo."  i find that kind of interesting since out of the seven tattoos i have (his included), six are perfect.

Guess what? No tattoo *is* perfect. You may think it is, but there’s always going to be something that the artist will know, but most customers never notice. And of your other six – how detailed, how intricate, are they of comparable difficulty?  You sound as if you do expect a machine that does tattoos. i was so pissed off that i just left.  i know i should have talked to juli, the owner of the studio, but i figured she’d just back him up.  i wound up finding someone who was willing to fix it for less than $50 and he was great, although he discovered that the original piece does have a bit of blow-out.

This artist is more than a little suspect.  And he "discovered" that the original piece has a bit of blow out? This tattoo is of fairly recent origin, right? How did he do this, pray? i’m obviously unhappy with the treatment i got from tim otherwise i wouldn’t be posting this… does anyone out there know of any other recourse i could take?  i suppose i should just suck it up and deal, eh?

You answered your own question. You got a tattoo. A tattoo is something that’s forever.  If you don’t speak up and voice your objections to things being done that you don’t like  to your own body, you just have to accept the outcome. You want something to bitch about? I have a snake tattoo on my arm that was done across the street from Juli’s at Jims (I bet that’s where you got your retattooing done, too – bubba perhaps?) which is an Escher snake -not deliberately – he doesn’t wrap, even though it looks as if he wraps around twice. I didn’t notice until afterwards. But it’s my own fault for not checking more carefully. Susan — http://public.surfree.com/scamp/default.htm

Response:

He doesn’t force his aesthetics on anyone – he’s too new to tattooing.

Most young or new tattooists DO force their aesthetics on people because they think they can reinvent the wheel… it takes experience to know that some things in tattooing just can’t be done. That’s my experience with the younger tattooists. Shawn/SPC *"Is that a subincision in your Pocket, or are you just glad to see me?"* "In clandestine clinics fugitive technicians experimented with test-tube babies and cuttings" William Burroughs

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He doesn’t force his aesthetics on anyone – he’s too new to tattooing. Most young or new tattooists DO force their aesthetics on people because they think they can reinvent the wheel… it takes experience to know that some things in tattooing just can’t be done.

Actually, I’ve spent time in that shop.  I’ve been there when people have asked Tim to do stuff he either had less or no experience at before. He *always* asks Juli, Chris or Cory what they’d do, and respects their answers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -That’s my experience with the younger tattooists. Shawn/SPC *"Is that a subincision in your Pocket, or are you just glad to see me?"* "In clandestine clinics fugitive technicians experimented with test-tube babies and cuttings" William Burroughs

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i’m obviously unhappy with the treatment i got from tim otherwise i wouldn’t be posting this… does anyone out there know of any other recourse i could take?  i suppose i should just suck it up and deal, eh?

I don’t think so at all. I’ve heard good things about Juli, I think you should tell her about your experience and giver her a chance to make it right somehow. I think she deserves to know…at least you can blow off some steam. And maybe she can make adjustments to her personnel that need to be made. (My opinion only folks…this guy sounds like a jerk.A bad tattoo *and* a bad attitude? I’d be upset too.) I recently had a sort of similar experience, by my artist was genuinely upset about the mistake and fixed it yesterday. All is well now and I am much happier emotionally. It was *really* bothering me. Now we still have a good working relationship. Danamania Bitch 16  HLA 7  9 of 9 ‘96 FXDS-Conv "Roxie"

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Question:

Hi, I want to get a snake tattoo on my arm. I want two or three coils around the arm. Has anyone got a pic they could e-mail to me I could use? Thanx

Response:

Hi, I want to get a snake tattoo on my arm. I want two or three coils around the arm. Has anyone got a pic they could e-mail to me I could use? Thanx

I have a snake tat that coils around my arm a couple of times (depending on how you count "coils"  I don’t have any pixs of it, right now, but I can tell you how I got mine.   I got a bunch of snake books.  I read up on the different types of snakes.  I picked a snake that matched (personality wise) what I was looking for, in colors that I liked.  I took it to my artist (Alphredo of Yoni Tattoo in Tarzana, CA) and told him what I wanted.  He did it. (Actually, he’s still doing it.  I figure it’s going to be done about a year after I started it.) walk in beauty Leaf to email me, remove the _ from "jade_jaguar" or just click here: "The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time"      James Taylor

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Question:

I’ve been planning a blackwork design for my back for a while now, and I was showing someone the other day where I was putting my newest work and he pointed out that I have a spattering of moles on my back.  I knew this already but it never occurred to me that there might be some problem involving tattooing over/around moles, the cute brown beauty-mark kind.  I was under the impression that the cellular structure of moles is more easily altered than that of plain ole skin, hence the panic about exposing them to too much sun or whatever. Would tattooing over moles mess them up, or disturb the tattoo?   Thanks, Jodi, the wary KT

Response:

I’ve been planning a blackwork design for my back for a while now, and I was showing someone the other day where I was putting my newest work and he pointed out that I have a spattering of moles on my back.  I knew this already but it never occurred to me that there might be some problem involving tattooing over/around moles, the cute brown beauty-mark kind.  I was under the impression that the cellular structure of moles is more easily altered than that of plain ole skin, hence the panic about exposing them to too much sun or whatever. Would tattooing over moles mess them up, or disturb the tattoo?  

When I got my snake tattoo done on my lower leg area, I noticed when I took the bandage off that the tattoo person had not covered the mole.  There is a little brown circle in the middle of the belly of my snake. I’ve heard something somewhere about how messing with moles can lead to skin cancer in that area. Not sure tho .. There must be *something* in it since my tattoo person just skipped over it. Laters, Lisa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks, Jodi, the wary KT

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Moles are fairly easy to have removed.  Heck, they even use an anesthetic. The most common methods are to snip them off (usually used on moles that the doctor wants to have biopsied, just in case) or to "burn" them off – I think it’s some sort of electric cauterizer.  Once they’re gone and the scab heals up, it’s just like normal skin underneath, suitable for tattooing to your heart’s content. I had 35 removed in one half-hour session and ended up looking like I’d been necking with a vampire.  :-) — Emily

Response:

Moles are fairly easy to have removed.  Heck, they even use an anesthetic. The most common methods are to snip them off (usually used on moles that the doctor wants to have biopsied, just in case) or to "burn" them off – I think it’s some sort of electric cauterizer.  Once they’re gone and the scab heals up, it’s just like normal skin underneath, suitable for tattooing to your heart’s content. I had 35 removed in one half-hour session and ended up looking like I’d been necking with a vampire.  :-) — Emily

Did that leave scars, or did the skin heal so that you couldn’t even tell they were there? Chris

Response:

Removing moles… I had 35 removed in one half-hour session and ended up looking like I’d been necking with a vampire.  :-) Did that leave scars, or did the skin heal so that you couldn’t even tell they were there?

I have a friend of mine who’s "all psyched" aobut her navel pierce (who was *absolutely fascinated* that you could pierce "other body parts" and had no idea what a clitoral hood was–Bwa hahahaha!!), but the poor woman has a port wine stain on her neck that looks JUST like a big fat hickey. Placement, size, coloring, everything. And it’s permanent. And she’s blond, fashion victim and all that she is, leaves quite an impression on the young men around this here parts (oh wow man, she’s got a HICKEY on her neck!). — UH School of Library & Info Studies. "Whatever the cost of our   o|<0_0——* libraries, the price is cheap compared to that of an ignorant      =^-| |_| | nation." -Walter Cronkite [R.a.b.bit--FAQ Maintainer: "Think Ink!"]    _B}_B}

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[re my post about having moles removed] Did that leave scars, or did the skin heal so that you couldn’t even tell they were there?

Well, he didn’t take them down far enough (he warned me that he was going to do it that way, preferring to have to redo some of them to leaving dents or scars), so I’ve got spots of newer, paler skin where the moles used to be.  They’re fairly unobtrusive, but I’m going to have them redone eventually. — Emily

Response:

(Rebecca Fenton) writes: Moles are fairly easy to have removed.  Heck, they even use an anesthetic. The most common methods are to snip them off   Emily is correct.  I had a large mole removed from my back  about 5 years ago.  It did leave a slightly raised scar.  I’ve worked it into my latest tattoo, with the scar being a petal of a flowers.   I’ve seen other moles incorporated into designs, but do not recall a mole ever being tattooed. Becky

I don’t think tattooing a mole would be a good thing. I’ve worked with dermatologists for the past few years and they constantly ask me if I want a couple moles on my neck (in the shaving area) removed. The problem is that these can be nicked by a razor and it is a bad idea to traumatize moles as it can (albeit rarely) cause skin cancer. On the other hand, if you treat your tattoo as you should and keep it under wraps or high SPF sun protection, you will lower the risk of cancer in that area. So the long and the short, consult your physician or if possible a dermatologist or derm surgeon who knows best. —

Response:

Moles are fairly easy to have removed.  Heck, they even use an anesthetic. The most common methods are to snip them off

   Emily is correct.  I had a large mole removed from my back  about 5 years ago.  It did leave a slightly raised scar.  I’ve worked it into my latest tattoo, with the scar being a petal of a flowers.    I’ve seen other moles incorporated into designs, but do not recall a mole ever being tattooed. Becky

Response:

I don’t think tattooing a mole would be a good thing. I’ve worked with dermatologists for the past few years and they constantly ask me if I want a couple moles on my neck (in the shaving area) removed. The problem is that these can be nicked by a razor and it is a bad idea to traumatize moles as it can (albeit rarely) cause skin cancer.

Is there a meaningful distinction between moles and liver spots in this regard?  I’ve got definite moles–dark brown and skin is raised–and I’ve got lots more plain jane spots in the area I’m planning for my next tattoo.  Now it sounds like I should have the moles lasered before I have the tatt done, but should I have ‘em just take off every pigmented spot?  How expensive does this get? I’ve also had spots appear in my tatts despite being pretty religious in covering them in SPF 50 sunblock whenever I have them exposed to the sun.

Response:

Moles are fairly easy to have removed.  Heck, they even use an anesthetic. The most common methods are to snip them off (usually used on moles that the doctor wants to have biopsied, just in case) or to "burn" them off – I think it’s some sort of electric cauterizer.  Once they’re gone and the scab heals up, it’s just like normal skin underneath, suitable for tattooing to your heart’s content. I had 35 removed in one half-hour session and ended up looking like I’d been necking with a vampire.  :-) — Emily

How much does this cost, by the way? Lisa

Response:

: I don’t think tattooing a mole would be a good thing. I’ve worked with : dermatologists for the past few years and they constantly ask : me if I want a couple moles on my neck (in the shaving area) : removed. The problem is that these can be nicked by a razor and : it is a bad idea to traumatize moles as it can (albeit rarely) : cause skin cancer. : Is there a meaningful distinction between moles and liver spots in this : regard?  I’ve got definite moles–dark brown and skin is raised–and I’ve : got lots more plain jane spots in the area I’m planning for my next tattoo. :  Now it sounds like I should have the moles lasered before I have the tatt : done, but should I have ‘em just take off every pigmented spot?  How : expensive does this get? : I’ve also had spots appear in my tatts despite being pretty religious in : covering them in SPF 50 sunblock whenever I have them exposed to the sun. I imagine that taking off those spots would be *very* expensive. Thet are just what are known as age spots or liver spots, and they appear naturally with age (even in tats). Ask a doctor to be sure but sounds to me like that what they are —  ***Berri (not Jason)  aka Froglet

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