Question:

My dog has her tattoo in her ear. Lisa I’ve heard of this on other dogs – and it would probably work great for Lee’s GSD.  Probably be more noticeable than inside the hind leg.  Not much room in a miniature schnauzer’s ear though!  ;-)

hehe!  I’ll see about this when I investigate the possibility of getting it done.  Once both ears have lifted, the pink inside is a little visible so I wonder whether it is the best place for a tattoo.  I bet he’d hate having his leg shaved! Hasn’t anybody invented *silent* clippers yet?  They’d be far less scary for dogs! — Lee J. Moore New pup, new pics, new site: http://www.leej.dsl.pipex.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [..] I have my dog micro-chipped, tattooed AND he has a collar with a tag. I notice you said the tatoo is visible (under the hair?) but on which part of the body is it?  I’m just curious having never even considered this option. He is tattooed high up inside a hind leg.  (Probably wasn’t his favorite way to spend an afternoon – getting it done!)  Since those hairs are clipped close when he’s groomed (it’s a schnauzer), they are noticeable most of the time.  When he’s getting really shaggy, you’d probably have to know they were there or you wouldn’t look that hard.  The breeder waits until they are at least twelve weeks old before doing the tattoo – later if she can.  As the dog grows, it stretches out the numbers so that they could become difficult to read.  I think if you had the option to wait until he’s approaching full growth, it would work the best. Mostly the breeder’s opinion was that it gave a visible identification – and perhaps discouraged dog-nappers.  I don’t know that it would really do that, but it’s one more safeguard whatever it accomplishes. — ~~Judy Never underestimate the warmth of a cold nose.

My dog is tattooed in the ear, and recently I got the advice that if you are going to take your dog to a show in Russia or some other former Sovjet state, a tattoo up high on the leg is better. An ear can always be removed without seriously damaging the dog, (it can still walk and breed afterwards) and the microchips are easy to remove too. But the tattoo on the leg, imposiible to remove. When it comes to identification in case your dog gets lost, i guess the ear is a better place, it’s much easier to look inside a strange dogs ear than to make the dog show its tummy… Rosa

Response:

[..] it’s much easier to look inside a strange dogs ear than to make the dog show its tummy…

Keller does *not* agree! http://www.leej.dsl.pipex.com/keller/misc/1033416966.jpg For some reason that reminds me of a defrosted chicken. — Lee J. Moore New pup, new pics, new site: http://www.leej.dsl.pipex.com

Response:

[..] it’s much easier to look inside a strange dogs ear than to make the dog show its tummy… Keller does *not* agree! http://www.leej.dsl.pipex.com/keller/misc/1033416966.jpg For some reason that reminds me of a defrosted chicken.

Adorable picture of a loved puppy.

Response:

In the US today, most tattooes on dogs are done on the inside thigh…. simply because too many ears got cut off in the bad old days…  Also, when placing an ear tattoo, the dog must be sedated or anesthetized. The ear must also be fairly large!  Racing greyhounds commonly have had ear tattooes; quick to verify at the starting gates or the race and at the end of the race.  Ear tattoes are usually done with pin plates; blanks with numbers made of many small pins are lined up in the desired sequence in a pinscers type device, inked and "stamped" into the ear.,,, kind of like the embosser used with a notary public verification.  Leg tattooes are done with regular tattoo machines like those used for decorative human tattooes. I’ve helped with many dog club tattoo clinics, and one thing that has always given me a chuckle…  The dogs are most likely to object to being restrained while the tattooer is re-inking, thus nothing is going on, than during the tattooing process itself!  Dogs don’t have as many "pain" nerve endings in their skin as we do, so this may account for this behavior pattern…  The tattoo can fade (and can be re-traced)… thick terrier hide is notorious for fading tattooes. Both tattoo and microchip number must be registered with a national registry such as the AKC’s Companion Animal Recovery program for either to have any value…..   My boss has gotten many calls about dogs found with tattooes because our local vets all knew that our training school sponsored tattoo clinics, and referred the finders to her.  She would provide the information to contact the registry…  Several times the owners had moved… no forwarding information had been provided to the registry.  A few had given/sold the dog to someone else.  However, most were returned to their owners. Shelters and vets will scan found dogs for chips….  Some shelters and rescues are chipping all adopted dogs…. A registered tattoo and/or microchip provide legal proof of ownershp, regardless of where the dog is found.  Many states.cities with dangerous dog laws require any dog declared dangerous/vicious to be microchipped. The US military is beginning to require all pet dogs and cats kept on bases/posts to be microchippped so they can be easily traced to owners…. because too many pets are being abandoned on the bases and in surrounding communities at transfer time.  (Owners are being fined or having nasty comments made in their military records for dumping pets….) Although, in theory, a microchip can be removed, it is not That easy to exactly locate it and cut it out…. it’s the size of a grain of rice with tiny "wings". Jo Wolf

Response:

both my mini schuanzars are chipped it caries a serial number to a central dadta base . ther are 2 chip sets .the one i have is active in chatam co. and natonally. it is read by a scanner at the humane socity or te vets office.  we have acctully used ours . when fritz escaped , they wereable to quickly tracehim to us and we were able to pick him up safely. the chipps are located in the back between the shoulderblades in smaller breeds.

Response:

My dog has her tattoo in her ear. Lisa

I’ve heard of this on other dogs – and it would probably work great for Lee’s GSD.  Probably be more noticeable than inside the hind leg.  Not much room in a miniature schnauzer’s ear though!  ;-) — ~~Judy Never underestimate the warmth of a cold nose.

Response:

Aww, schnauzers are a lovely breed aren’t they?  They have so much character.

Exactly my feelings.  Everyone has a breed or two that tugs at their heart. While I’ve known a lot of other individual dogs that I really liked, schnauzers and beagles do it for me. I’d rather my dog had as much ID as possible just in case the worst possible scenario occurs and he’s lucky enough to be found/saved by the authorities.

That was my thought.  Spenser’s breeder felt that the tatto being a visible form of ID would discourage thieves.  Maybe knowledgeable thieves at dog shows.  But out in the world,  I don’t think anyone would look for one before taking a dog but it might make them more likely to dump him later – and then the tattoo would help get him back home.  Just another safety line. Kellers little health problem (the symptoms at least) is over now btw so I’m a bit less stressed this morning.

Hope it stays gone this time.  It’s not any fun for either of you. — ~~Judy Never underestimate the warmth of a cold nose.

Response:

[..] I have my dog micro-chipped, tattooed AND he has a collar with a tag.   I notice you said the tatoo is visible (under the hair?) but on which part of the body is it?  I’m just curious having never even considered this option. [..]

My dog has her tattoo in her ear. Lisa

Response:

[..] I notice you said the tatoo is visible (under the hair?) but on which part of the body is it?  I’m just curious having never even considered this option. He is tattooed high up inside a hind leg.  (Probably wasn’t his favorite way to spend an afternoon – getting it done!)

LOL! Since those hairs are clipped close when he’s groomed (it’s a schnauzer),

Aww, schnauzers are a lovely breed aren’t they?  They have so much character.  Somebody nearby has one (I’ve not seen many in my lifetime) and when his coat is long he almost appears as though he’s wearing flared trousers!! they are noticeable most of the time.  When he’s getting really shaggy, you’d probably have to know they were there or you wouldn’t look that hard.  The breeder waits until they are at least twelve weeks old before doing the tattoo – later if she can.  As the dog grows, it stretches out the numbers so that they could become difficult to read.  

Aah yes, good point! I think if you had the option to wait until he’s approaching full growth, it would work the best. Mostly the breeder’s opinion was that it gave a visible identification – and perhaps discouraged dog-nappers.  I don’t know that it would really do that, but it’s one more safeguard whatever it accomplishes.

Well I’m considering it now.  A few years ago, a couple of GSDs (although mostly very young mastiff type dogs) were taken from peoples yards/gardens in a district far too close for comfort.   Even though the perperatrators were caught, it’s a constant worry and I’d rather my dog had as much ID as possible just in case the worst possible scenario occurs and he’s lucky enough to be found/saved by the authorities. Kellers little health problem (the symptoms at least) is over now btw so I’m a bit less stressed this morning. — Lee J. Moore New pup, new pics, new site: http://www.leej.dsl.pipex.com

Response:

Can someone tell me exactly what these microchips do please? Are they used to actually find a lost dog or do they just carry information of  the owner in case they happen to find one ? if its the latter then why bother as the dog collar carries name and number ? Thanks for any help.

It contains a number that allows you to get the owner information. Why is the dog lost?  Maybe because it wriggled out of its collar.  So now there is no collar on the dog.  Or a door didn’t close and the dog wanders out.  Someone sees it puts a leash on and ties the dog up while they go inside the house to call the number on the collar.  The dog doesn’t like being tied and slips out of the collar.  Now you have no ID on the dog.  A person decides to take your dog for themselves.  They toss the collar in their yard.  They drive a considerable distance to their home. Your dog escapes and is now on the street with no ID and much further than you are likely to reach with advertisements or searches of kennels.  A person decides to take the dog for resale.  They remove the collar and sell the dog a  research laboratory.  This lab is goverened by rules requiring they search for such identification (many are, depends on location).  You get reunited with your dog. The dog’s collar is important, but useful only as long as it is on the dog. Diane Blackman

Response:

Thanks for the help Lee, but if my dog was stolen chances are its not going to be kept away from the authorities that are able to read the chip.

I suppose so.  But of course there is always a chance that your dog *will* be recovered, so perhaps worth it in that respect. It was

Question:

I would like to humbly request any persons who have been tattooed by an amateur friend to share their experience. I am considering such an interaction and would like to include other people’s perceptions of pros and cons in my mental checklist. I’ve gone googling just as I post this. fr0glet P.S. please note that this is the type of request I strive to produce when sober. My apologies for other illicit requests I may have posted when under the influences of mind-altering substances.

Response:

f I am considering such an interaction and would like to include f other people’s perceptions of pros and cons in my mental f checklist.         um. if you haven’t already been here long enough to concoct your own list of why that’s a terrible idea, i doubt anything said here will convince you. lish                                "what is wrong with simply cuddling   36.9% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

Response:

f I am considering such an interaction and would like to include f other people’s perceptions of pros and cons in my mental f checklist.    um. if you haven’t already been here long enough to concoct your own list of why that’s a terrible idea, i doubt anything said here will convince you.

She (lish) always snips out what, to me, seems pertinent. [unsnip] fr0glet wrote, "I would like to humbly request any persons who have been tattooed by an amateur friend to share their experience." Now, perhaps, because Lish Has Spoken the dialogue may end.  I certainly hope not.   lisheep comes to mind. <g Unfortunately, I agree with the "terrible idea" portion of lish’s reply, but I have some followup questions.   And I understand the thought of wanting a friend as your tattoo artist versus someone in a shop who you have no connection with. (Or "vith whom you have no connection" for the Nazis.) Sure, there’s no connection with the appliance salesman, but purchasing a tattoo is a different item altogether. (sigh) Um.  Whatever. Best of luck with your decision, fr0glet.   How amateur?   This would be your first tattoo as well, right? Bonus Tattoo Trivia: Although I’ve never been tattooed by an amateur friend, I do have an amateur friend tattoo artist experience to share. Hm.  Which I may have shared before.  Damn. The one about the hitchhiker?  He hops in my car and proudly shows off his new tattoo.  An obviously amateur creation of a bicycle-looking Harley with a rider and the logo:  Harly Davidson. "What do you think of my new tattoo?" <blink "Hey, that’s a nice job." — Curt (will lie to spare someone’s heart) http://www.curtjames.com/

Response:

f I am considering such an interaction and would like to include f other people’s perceptions of pros and cons in my mental f checklist. um. if you haven’t already been here long enough to concoct your own list of why that’s a terrible idea, i doubt anything said here will convince you.

My list contains both pros and cons, both why its a terrible idea and why its a wonderful idea. I still have the right to solicit personal references from people who have had a friend tattoo them and either have something terrible to tell or some wonderful experience to share. So, I’m not seeking someone to convince me. I just want to discuss it. fr0glet

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – f I am considering such an interaction and would like to include f other people’s perceptions of pros and cons in my mental f checklist. um. if you haven’t already been here long enough to concoct your own list of why that’s a terrible idea, i doubt anything said here will convince you. She (lish) always snips out what, to me, seems pertinent. [unsnip] fr0glet wrote, "I would like to humbly request any persons who have been tattooed by an amateur friend to share their experience." .snip. Best of luck with your decision, fr0glet.

Thanks, I have until September to decide. Then he’s moving back to New York. How amateur?

He estimates his apprenticeship was nearly 12 years ago. He has a small portfolio, probably 30-40 different people therein and many of them have more than one piece of work from him. He has worked on himself extensively, which I get to look at every day as he is living with us. He has a biiiig flash collection. I like his work. This would be your first tattoo as well, right?

Correct. I have some grand plans for intricate tattoos, however he and I have only discussed the possibility of some simple work. a rider and the logo:  Harly Davidson.

Yeah, you’ve told that one before Curt (will lie to spare someone’s heart)

And that is just one example of the differences between you and I! fr0glet

Response:

So, I’m not seeking someone to convince me. I just want to discuss it.

I assume you’re  being serious? Does your friend have any experience doing this?  Amateurs can really make tattoos HURT.  And they can screw up a perfectly good design in amazing ways when they realize that skin is NOTHING like bond paper. Is this for some ‘this person and this tattoo mean a lot to me’ reason, or to help them get used to tattooing? TQ

Response:

So, I’m not seeking someone to convince me. I just want to discuss it. I assume you’re  being serious? Does your friend have any experience doing this?

Yes, I’m being serious I’m a lousy troll, anyways. Yes again, about 12 years of intermittent practicing. I’ve seen examples of his work on film and on skin. I don’t have a perfect critiqueing(sp?) eye, but I’ve liked what I’ve seen so far. Amateurs can really make tattoos HURT.

I’m honestly not concerned with the pain of it. I consider myself to have a high pain threshold. Granted, I’m completely unexperienced with tattoo pain… but still. And they can screw up a perfectly good design in amazing ways when they realize that skin is NOTHING like bond paper. Is this for some ‘this person and this tattoo mean a lot to me’ reason, or to help them get used to tattooing?

He means a lot to myself and my significant other. I suspect when he moves back east we will not see him for many years to come. The tattoo would be indicative of our friendship and would also be my cherry-popper. I may be romanticizing the idea, but somehow the close-friend-privacy-of-own-home-sterilized-to-our-specifications-fir st-tattoo-and-permanent-reminder-of-friend REALLY appeals to me. I’m sure that he wants the practice as well, as he is currently only tattooing about 1 piece a month (or less). Another thing I particularly like about said friend (read: on the pros list) is his willingness to show me every single piece of equipment, his autoclave, his needles he has made and how he made them, letting me look through a loupe at his needles (in autoclave bags), his tattoo machines he has built, etc etc etc. fr0glet

Response:

I would like to humbly request any persons who have been tattooed by an amateur friend to share their experience.

Bad, bad, horrible awful. Ugliest fucking tattoo you’ve ever seen that is also full of scar tissue (shut up, I was young and fucking stupid.) It hurt worse than any of the others combined.  I’m surprised I ever let another tattoo machine near me.  It took longer than you would believe to heal (I’m a slow healer, but, nothing like this.) I am considering such an interaction and would like to include other people’s perceptions of pros and cons in my mental checklist.

The one ‘pro’, if it can be called that, is the bond I made with that friend during it.   I would never do it again, as there are plenty of other ways to bond with friends.   I’m also lucky that it has faded quite a bit and continues to, as someday I plan on having it covered. — Suzy Smith Fly Away: http://www.mutteringfool.com fricka fracka firecracker, sis boom bah leeches, leeches, rah rah rah -lish

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to humbly request any persons who have been tattooed by an amateur friend to share their experience. Bad, bad, horrible awful. Ugliest fucking tattoo you’ve ever seen that is also full of scar tissue (shut up, I was young and fucking stupid.) It hurt worse than any of the others combined.  I’m surprised I ever let another tattoo machine near me.  It took longer than you would believe to heal (I’m a slow healer, but, nothing like this.) I am considering such an interaction and would like to include other people’s perceptions of pros and cons in my mental checklist. The one ‘pro’, if it can be called that, is the bond I made with that friend during it. I would never do it again, as there are plenty of other ways to bond with friends. I’m also lucky that it has faded quite a bit and continues to, as someday I plan on having it covered.

Yikes. Noted! What causes all that scarring? Poor technique? Tattooing too deep or something? fr0glet

Response:

I would like to humbly request any persons who have been tattooed by an amateur friend to share their experience.

The big tattoo I have on my leg was done by a friend of mine, it being only the second tattoo he’d ever done (at the time). And it was great. He wasn’t heavy handed, the ink looks peachy (other than where my cat tried to climb it), no scarring or anything of the sort. I reckon that this isn’t a normal experience, however. But, the guy who did mine is absolutely amazing in the talent department. Even better now, after a few years of experience. ~magdalene — "i would beat the fuck out of fair percy, there."       http://nekroman.tk

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to humbly request any persons who have been tattooed by an amateur friend to share their experience. The big tattoo I have on my leg was done by a friend of mine, it being only the second tattoo he’d ever done (at the time). And it was great. He wasn’t heavy handed, the ink looks peachy (other than where my cat tried to climb it), no scarring or anything of the sort. I reckon that this isn’t a normal experience, however. But, the guy who did mine is absolutely amazing in the talent department. Even better now, after a few years of experience.

Thanks for sharing. A couple more questions – where was the tattoo performed? If in a home – how sterile were the conditions (in your estimation)? Lastly – got pics? Just for my own curiousity fr0glet

Response:

f Another thing I particularly like about said friend (read: on the f pros list) is his willingness to show me every single piece of f equipment, his autoclave, his needles he has made and how he made f them, letting me look through a loupe at his needles (in autoclave f bags), his tattoo machines he has built, etc etc etc.         so, anything that a professional would gladly show you. got it.         this openness should not impress you; it is expected. lish                                     "lies are the words that i use 36.9% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

Response:

f What causes all that scarring? Poor technique? Tattooing too deep or f something?         amateurs cause all that scarring.         it’s technique, depth, usage of the machine, how well you stretch the flesh, how well you DON’T stretch the flesh… on & on. everything causes scarring with tattoos – thing is, a good pro knows how much he can work the skin & still have the scarring dissipate in a reasonable amount of time (ie two or three weeks).         but hey, you’ll get your BONDING EXPERIENCE out of it, right? & probably a pretty good deal on price, too. lish                                     "we don’t want to HURT anyone. 36.9% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

Response:

f So, I’m not seeking someone to convince me. I just want to f discuss it.         you asked for pros & cons. this reads as "convince me one way or the other". please elucidate next time you want to "discuss" something. lish                                        "before i fuck your mother, 36.9% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

Response:

f So, I’m not seeking someone to convince me. I just want to f discuss it. you asked for pros & cons. this reads as "convince me one way or the other". please elucidate next time you want to "discuss"

something. Actually I asked for: a) personal experiences b) people’s perceptions of pros and cons Lucidity. fr0glet

Response:

f So, I’m not seeking someone to convince me. I just want to f discuss it.    you asked for pros & cons. this reads as "convince me one way or the other". please elucidate next time you want to "discuss" something.

You snipped it, but she also asked for people to share their experiences as well as asking for other people’s perceptions of pros and cons of having an amateur friend complete a tattoo. That, imo, should have been elucidation enough. Liar!  You were illuminated.  You simply chose the Easy Slam Option rather than go for the obvious if, perhaps, not directly stated discussion request. Good grief.  I just reread this post.  Duuuuuuuuh.

please elucidate next time you want to "discuss" something.

I just want to discuss it. Hm. I plus just plus want plus to plus discuss plus it.   What does that equal? That should have equaled e-l-u-c-i-d-a-t-i-o-n. Sometimes things just fall into your lap.  Hnh. Dear Diary, everyone is human.  Even those who believe they are perfect.  And Satan. — Curt http://www.curtjames.com/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – f So, I’m not seeking someone to convince me. I just want to f discuss it.        you asked for pros & cons. this reads as "convince me one way or the other". please elucidate next time you want to "discuss" something. You snipped it, but she also asked for people to share their experiences as well as asking for other people’s perceptions of pros and cons of having an amateur friend complete a tattoo. That, imo, should have been elucidation enough. Liar!  You were illuminated.  You simply chose the Easy Slam Option rather than go for the obvious if, perhaps, not directly stated discussion request.

Damn.  It couldn’t have been that easy.  The "I just want to discuss it" portion was a followup, of course, however the first portion of my response is still a go. Good grief.  I just reread this post.  Duuuuuuuuh. please elucidate next time you want to "discuss" something. I just want to discuss it.

[snip overeager smartass remarks] Dear Diary, everyone is human.  Even those who believe they are perfect.

Dear Diary, I need to pay attention. — Curt

Response:

f Actually I asked for: f a) personal experiences f b) people’s perceptions of pros and cons         funny, then, that everyone replied with "you shouldn’t do it & this is why". lish                       "it’s just a BIG BLACK HOLE that goes ON AND 36.9% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

Response:

C Damn.  It couldn’t have been that easy.  The "I just C [snip overeager smartass remarks] Dear Diary, everyone is human.  Even those who believe they are perfect.

C Dear Diary, I need to pay attention.         mm-hmm. lish                         "are you a believer? well, i’m a deceiver. 36.9% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

Response:

f Thanks for sharing. A couple more questions – where was the tattoo f performed? If in a home – how sterile were the conditions (in your f estimation)?         dr baltes says there aren’t LEVELS of sterility. either you have a sterile environment or you don’t.         i hope you save a lot of money having your friend tattoo you!!! lish                "there’s a digital zoom so i can get EVEN CLOSER to 36.9% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

Response:

C Damn.  It couldn’t have been that easy.  The "I just C [snip overeager smartass remarks] Dear Diary, everyone is human.  Even those who believe they are perfect. C Dear Diary, I need to pay attention.    mm-hmm.

Shut up, Satan. —

Response:

f Actually I asked for: f a) personal experiences f b) people’s perceptions of pros and cons    funny, then, that everyone replied with "you shouldn’t do it & this is why".

Not everyone. — Curt http://www.curtjames.com/

Response:

f Thanks for sharing. A couple more questions – where was the tattoo f performed? If in a home – how sterile were the conditions (in your f estimation)? dr baltes says there aren’t LEVELS of sterility. either you have a sterile environment or you don’t.

I’ve heard it phrased "sterility is binary". i hope you save a lot of money having your friend tattoo

you!!! For the record, there will be no monetary exchange for the tattoo. fr0glet

Response:

I would like to humbly request any persons who have been tattooed by an amateur friend to share their experience.

i was tattooed by an amateur friend of a friend – does that count?   i can see why it might be a bad idea, but six years later i remain happy with the homestyle tattoo, whereas the one i had done in a shop when i was 21 i am slowly scheming to transform into *anything* but what it is now. i’m certain that the difference in my feelings towards my tattoos has nothing to do with the artist or the locale and everything to do with me making a better choice of designs and placement the second time around.   i didn’t experience any undue pain.  it hurt no more and no less than i expected it to.  i didn’t get any infections.  my skin healed quickly and efficiently.   i did have to have the entire thing redone almost immediately because as soon as the first bits of scab came off, it was apparent that the color was nowhere near as bright as was supposed to be.  *shrug*  it took well the second time and the color is still very strong.  (it almost never sees the sun.) no regrets. at least, not about this particular experience

Response:

i hope you save a lot of money having your friend tattoo you!!!

f For the record, there will be no monetary exchange for the f tattoo.         …which means you’ll save a lot of money having your friend tattoo you. congratulations, you’re a dipshit. lish                    "i am punching your pre-paid blowjob card twice 36.9% / 30                                                RANA 125 / 68

Response:

Question:

Looking for a new machine and everyone seems to have an opinion, just hoping to add a few more before I make a decision.  I am left handed and I prefer machines that don’t have top heavy, ornate decorations – I also prefer tube release mechanisms that are reversible and either hug the frame or don’t drop below it…. thanks, greg

Response:

Looking for a new machine and everyone seems to have an opinion, just hoping to add a few more before I make a decision.  I am left handed and I prefer machines that don’t have top heavy, ornate decorations – I also prefer tube release mechanisms that are reversible and either hug the frame or don’t drop below it….

Perhaps going to a tattoo convention would be helpful. Kavin

Response:

<< Perhaps going to a tattoo convention would be helpful. good thought, but I am hoping to pick up something in the next few weeks and I don’t see any shows on the horizon.  If anyone knows of any good links to sites for reviews I would appreciate it.

Response:

Question:

Hi guys, I really want to tattoo a word on my lower back, I already have 3 tattoos, so I aint no ink rookie. =) But anyways, I was wondering if you guys knew the name of or where I could fine any tattoo fonts??? I know Old English is commonly used, but their is another crazy tattoo font that I like a lot better then OE, I believe Tommy Lee has it, and a lot of other dudes do too. Thanks, much appreciated! jedi*

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This is just a thought….but have you even considered looking in your artist’s shop?  They tend to have a whole bunch of fonts with the flash.  I bet all the really cool Tommy Lee metal dude fonts would be there if you just opened your fucking eyes.   ***skyelass*** <Did that sound bitchy?

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– tattoos, so I aint no ink rookie. =) But anyways, I was wondering if you – guys knew the name of or where I could fine any tattoo fonts??? I know O         uh. why don’t you just find a font you like & go in with a printing of whatever dumb word you want on you? there aren’t any "tattoo fonts".         unless you want to be GENERIC & UNORIGINAL & CONFORMIST, in which lish 33.2% / 32

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Hi guys, I really want to tattoo a word on my lower back, I already have 3 tattoos, so I aint no ink rookie. =) But anyways, I was wondering if you guys knew the name of or where I could fine any tattoo fonts??? I know Old English is commonly used, but their is another crazy tattoo font that I like a lot better then OE, I believe Tommy Lee has it, and a lot of other dudes do too. Thanks, much appreciated!

Hi, I’m Amy, and I’m a fontaholic.  There’s a font called Brad’s Tattoo (from Sublime) at: http://www.eliteentertainment.net/famousfonts/music/index_n-s.html You could also try posting your request to alt.binaries.fonts where you’re sure to get a few good responses.  I’m just a hatchling compared to the regulars over there. — WyrdWoman http://www.mindspring.com/~amy.webb/

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Hi, I’m Amy, and I’m a fontaholic.  There’s a font called Brad’s Tattoo (from Sublime) at: http://www.eliteentertainment.net/famousfonts/music/index_n-s.html

Wow, a nice post! — Peter Blair Toronto, Ontario

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-jedi- sends: Hi guys, I really want to tattoo a word on my lower back, I already have 3 tattoos, so I aint no ink rookie. =) But anyways, I was wondering if you guys knew the name of or where I could fine any tattoo fonts??? I know Old English is commonly used, but their is another crazy tattoo font that I like a lot better then OE, I believe Tommy Lee has it, and a lot of other dudes do too. Thanks, much appreciated!

Last I checked, Adobe hasn’t ported their PostScript interpreters to tattoo machines. So there’s not a "tattoo font" in the same sense that there’s a "plotter font" or a "typesetter font." Basically, pick whatever you like. Of course, you could always go to a rotogravure house and cut a deal with the Klisch operator to swap the diamond stylus in his cylinder engraver for a needle bar… And another pet peeve of mine revealed! Calling all blackletter fonts "Old English." Old English is actually a specific blackletter face, and it comes from Monotype. It got popular among typesetters because Ottmar Mergenthaler didn’t have a good blackletter for the Linotype machine; Monotype started selling Linotype-format casting matrices of the Old English font, one thing led to another and pretty soon calling blackletter "Old English" was as common as calling transparent pressure-sensitive tape "scotch tape" is today. Old English isn’t even the best blackletter on the market! There are three basic blackletter types that people still use today–Gothic, like Old English or my favorite Linotext, which is an English-inspired blackletter; Fraktur, like Duc de Berry or Fette Fraktur, which is a German-inspired blackletter; and Chancery, like Zapf Chancery or Monotype Corsiva (which looks so much like Zapf Chancery that I used to use Zapf Chancery on jobs people had set up in Corsiva), which is inspired by monks’ calligraphy. BTW, Amy, not to put too subtle a point on it, but Brad’s Tattoo is an awful font. It is drawn very badly and prints worse–if you can convince it to not crash your printer. (I had a copy of it in last week. It crashed my LaserWriter twice, printed once, then crashed my Scitex system three times. I used something else to complete the work.) — –jmowreader "How come we choose from just two people for president, and fifty for Miss America?" –Alfred E. Neumann Visit MacSalon’s website at http://www.macsalon.org

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BTW, Amy, not to put too subtle a point on it, but Brad’s Tattoo is an awful font. It is drawn very badly and prints worse–if you can convince it to not crash your printer.

I’ve never downloaded it, but thanks for the heads up.  I figured it could give him an idea, anyway.  And since you mentioned Chancery, I would have to say that Black Chancery is my favorite font.  It’s what I used on most of the headers on my site. You aren’t subscribed to alt.binaries.fonts, are you?  You should.  :) — WyrdWoman http://www.mindspring.com/~amy.webb/

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WyrdWoman sends: I’ve never downloaded it, but thanks for the heads up.  I figured it could give him an idea, anyway.  And since you mentioned Chancery, I would have to say that Black Chancery is my favorite font.  It’s what I used on most of the headers on my site.

Black Chancery is a decent noncommercial font. You aren’t subscribed to alt.binaries.fonts, are you?  You should.  :)

I’ve only got 9,422 fonts on the Scitex front end (that system will tell you how many fonts are loaded onto it) and an additional 1,500 or so fonts that I didn’t feel comfortable about loading over there. I don’t know if there are any more fonts. What the hell is a Scitex? Go to http://www.scitex.com and search for "Dolev 4press" and "PS/M digital front end." This is my contribution to leveling the balance of trade with Israel. It is an ultra-high-end laser printer (Scitex calls it a plotter) which images not on paper like ordinary printers do but rather on 29-inch-wide photographic film. (Yes, you develop this film–the processing machine is bolted right to the plotter and the film automatically feeds from the plotter to the processor.) — –jmowreader "If all printers were to wait to print anything until they were sure it would offend nobody, then there would be very little printed." –Benjamin Franklin Visit MacSalon’s website at http://www.macsalon.org

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Yes it did sound bitchy

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[deletia] : What the hell is a Scitex? Go to http://www.scitex.com and search for "Dolev : 4press" and "PS/M digital front end." This is my contribution to leveling : the balance of trade with Israel. It is an ultra-high-end laser printer : (Scitex calls it a plotter) which images not on paper like ordinary printers : do but rather on 29-inch-wide photographic film. (Yes, you develop this : film–the processing machine is bolted right to the plotter and the film : automatically feeds from the plotter to the processor.) Hrmmm…. What does it gain you to have it print to photographic film then to develop the film and (presumably) transpose it onto paper? Well other than being able to make multiple "prints" from the same "negative" that is. fpsm — | Fredrich P. Maney                                                   | |          Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/           | |                Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR1748.                   | |          "Sometimes, fear has a good and useful purpose."           |

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Heh, I worked for Scitex for a couple of years (in Bedford MA, not Israel). And Quadex. And Xyvision. And Camex. And Compugraphic. And Bitstream.  So I’ve worked for both ends of the production cycle of fonts. My mother was a type-design artist at Compugraphic. She grew to hate most fonts. Susan http://scamptattoo.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WyrdWoman sends: I’ve never downloaded it, but thanks for the heads up.  I figured it could give him an idea, anyway.  And since you mentioned Chancery, I would have to say that Black Chancery is my favorite font.  It’s what I used on most of the headers on my site. Black Chancery is a decent noncommercial font. You aren’t subscribed to alt.binaries.fonts, are you?  You should.  :) I’ve only got 9,422 fonts on the Scitex front end (that system will tell you how many fonts are loaded onto it) and an additional 1,500 or so fonts that I didn’t feel comfortable about loading over there. I don’t know if there are any more fonts. What the hell is a Scitex? Go to http://www.scitex.com and search for "Dolev 4press" and "PS/M digital front end." This is my contribution to leveling the balance of trade with Israel. It is an ultra-high-end laser printer (Scitex calls it a plotter) which images not on paper like ordinary printers do but rather on 29-inch-wide photographic film. (Yes, you develop this film–the processing machine is bolted right to the plotter and the film automatically feeds from the plotter to the processor.) — –jmowreader "If all printers were to wait to print anything until they were sure it would offend nobody, then there would be very little printed." –Benjamin Franklin Visit MacSalon’s website at http://www.macsalon.org

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My mother was a type-design artist at Compugraphic. She grew to hate most fonts.

You’re so lucky!  I bet you got all kinds of free fonts?  :) — WyrdWoman http://www.mindspring.com/~amy.webb/

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Yes it did sound bitchy

Learn to quote so that I get my appropriate bitch attribution. ***skyelass*** <Lady Asshole in Waiting to Seraphim and David

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No – this was before CD’s, and their idea of "digitized" was a tad primitive, and probably proprietary – if it wasn’t a Compugraphic typesetter, you weren’t going to be able to read that font, let alone use it. If I remember correctly, what her job usually entailed: take an ITC font, blow the characters up to a huge size on the biggest Agfa camera I’ve ever seen, clean up the edges, cut mylar tracings, combine groups of characters for kerning and spacing data, cut more mylar, eventually when they looked clean enough reduce them back down, and I think Compugraphic would then rename the face. Occasionally, they’d be encouraged to design their own, and there were a couple of people who worked there who were "real" font designers, had fonts named after themselves, etc. I remember one name – Hollis Holland – just because it was such a weird name. Apparently, there are a "Holland something" typeface or two out there. My mother had been the 3rd person hired for the font department – she’d been working in the manufacturing area and transferred out. They asked her to draw something, she did, she got the job. Eventually they became more demanding, and for the most part they hired art school kids who burned out pretty fast with that kind of work. But they used to have some interesting Halloween and Christmas parties. Apparently one year one of the women there decorated the department christmas tree entirely in hand made and intricately crafted penis decorations. It was laughed at and enjoyed until the president of the company heard about it… But usually their antics were tolerated since, after all, they’re crazy artists. Also, this was mid-seventies, early eighties. Your boss could still pinch your bum without repercussion back then… Bitstream used modified Camex machines for their outline fonts; when they started work on bitmap fonts they used Symbolics workstations.  For regular software development (not font design) they also used Apollo domain workstations. I have no idea what they’re using now, since all of those companies have ceased to exist. They certainly could pick ‘em…     Susan     http://scamptattoo.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mother was a type-design artist at Compugraphic. She grew to hate most fonts. You’re so lucky!  I bet you got all kinds of free fonts?  :) — WyrdWoman http://www.mindspring.com/~amy.webb/

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Fredrich P. Maney sends: Hrmmm…. What does it gain you to have it print to photographic film then to develop the film and (presumably) transpose it onto paper? Well other than being able to make multiple "prints" from the same "negative" that is.

You’re not transposing it onto paper, you’re making printing plates with it. And unless you’ve got a computer-to-plate system, or one of those Itek cameras the quick printers use, you need film to make plates. — –jmowreader Visit MacSalon’s website at http://www.macsalon.org

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: Fredrich P. Maney sends: : Hrmmm…. What does it gain you to have it print to photographic : film then to develop the film and (presumably) transpose it onto : paper? Well other than being able to make multiple "prints" from : the same "negative" that is. : You’re not transposing it onto paper, you’re making printing plates with it. : And unless you’ve got a computer-to-plate system, or one of those Itek : cameras the quick printers use, you need film to make plates. Ah… ok. I know a smidgen about photography and printing, but the only thing I know about fonts is how well they work in Web Design. I’ve never been very interested in the dead-tree form of publishing (though I do greatly enjoy reading from dead trees). fpsm — | Fredrich P. Maney                                                   | |          Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/           | |                Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR1748.                   | |          "Sometimes, fear has a good and useful purpose."           |

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Fredrich P. Maney sends: Ah… ok. I know a smidgen about photography and printing, but the only thing I know about fonts is how well they work in Web Design.

They work better in print…in web design you’re never quite certain what the reader will have set his browser up for, but in print whatever’s in the file will be on paper. — –jmowreader "If all printers were to wait to print anything until they were sure it would offend nobody, then there would be very little printed." –Benjamin Franklin Visit MacSalon’s website at http://www.macsalon.org

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Yes it did sound bitchy Learn to quote so that I get my appropriate bitch attribution.

i’ve noticed that when someone asks acidbaby to quote, he/she will quote on his/her next post, but then forget to do it on the one after that.  happens every time.  things that make you go "hm". david http://hometown.aol.com/stickneedlesinme/myhomepage/index.html Isn’t that when you pump so hard it causes nerve death, instead of just tenderness or blisters? –Plogsloth, RAB 12/26/99

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Question:

Out of curiousity:  what studio did you go to? — Barry www.anatometal.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just recentley went through a terrible ordeal with my toungue pierceing. The piercer pierced me and placed in 5/8 length jewelry instead of what I now find is necessary to use 3/4 or greater. My question is would it be "proper" for me to take some printed information I have obtained since then, prove that he screwed up and ask for my money back? I feel like he was the professional. He insisted that 5/8 was adequate for a new pierce. I felt like since he was APP it would be ok. My toungue swelled and physically ’sucked’ one of the balls into my toungue. A dentist had to anethesize my tounge and clamp my toungue forcing it to pop back out and unscrew it with hemostats. I just feel like I was cheated. Am I right for feeling this way?

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Well well well, imagine that. Piercing and Hair…. How did this person become APP in a hair studio? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Cutting Edge" Piercing and Hair Studio, in Helena, Ar. Out of curiousity:  what studio did you go to? — Barry www.anatometal.com I just recentley went through a terrible ordeal with my toungue pierceing. The piercer pierced me and placed in 5/8 length jewelry instead of what I now find is necessary to use 3/4 or greater. My question is would it be "proper" for me to take some printed information I have obtained since then, prove that he screwed up and ask for my money back? I feel like he was the professional. He insisted that 5/8 was adequate for a new pierce. I felt like since he was APP it would be ok. My toungue swelled and physically ’sucked’ one of the balls into my toungue. A dentist had to anethesize my tounge and clamp my toungue forcing it to pop back out and unscrew it with hemostats. I just feel like I was cheated. Am I right for feeling this way?

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Well well well, imagine that. Piercing and Hair…. How did this person become APP in a hair studio?

*** The APP certifies Piercers, not studios. If the piercing set-up is in another room, it’s quite possible to maintain a clean/sterile field. APP certification is not given out easily or taken lightly. And it’s very possible the original poster had excessive swelling. Instead of doing the right thing, asking the piercer to take a look or give some advice, she asked a bunch of strangers what to do. A refund, well, hell… sure, if that’s what she wants. A re-pierce? Of course, if that’s what she wants. But dialouge is the key. Well, well, well. Ask relevant questions, instead of being a pompous ass. — k e i t h   a l e x a n d e r w w w . n o o t r o p e . n e t www.modernamerican.com a p p   n y c – e n d   t r a n s m i s s i o n –

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Hi, I am the original poster…

*** Hi, I’m Keith. I’m more like a original lithograph. Here is the problem. I come in, ask alot of questions about his experience and such. He claims that he was ‘affiliated’ with the APP. I have now found there are no APP members in the state of Arkansas.

*** Did you ask to see proof? Were all the other questions answered to your satisfaction? I assume they were. You let him proceed. I am NOT blaming you here. Let’s get that straight right away before all the usual suspects chime in. I did call a studio in Memphis, and he advised me 5.8 was a dumb thing for the guy to pierce me with, and told me to take it out.

*** Well, it may have been a bad thing for you, but for some people, 5/8 is just fine. Elvis over there, needs to SEE something before making a proclamation. In your case, it seems, 5/8 was too short. So upsize asap. Or get the refund. So I tried, but I could not get a hold of the bells. It was evening now, and I made an appointment with a dentist first thing in the morning. When I awoke, the bead was firmly embedded in my top toungue. The dentist had to anethesize my tounge, and clamp it forcing the ball to pop out. I felt this, and it hurt 100 times worse than the pierce. Then they used hemostats to unscrew it.

Lemme tell ya, I sympathize, I really do. I question the dentist but that’s another story. Now tell me it is my fault…

*** Placing blame, is one thing I avoid. Obviously, you trusted someone and were let down. Maybe, I can be faulted with trusting a so called professional, but other than that. I didnt eat for three days, I didnt play with it, and did after care religiously, but 5/8 was just too dang short.

*** It sure was. The piercer is still on vacation. That is why I have not spoke with him yet.

*** Well, let us know how that goes. And let him know members of the APP board read RAB and just may give him a call. And you say a repierce by him? You gotta be kidding right?

*** You didn’t say he sucked. You said he answered your questions and so on. You didn’t say placement was off. The bbell was too short. A simple matter to correct. Trust me, I am no defender of hacks. Was he a hack? I was considering a Prince Albert, but after that experience I would be scared my thing would fall off or something…

*** Things (penises) do not fall off, they simply explode. I’ll wait till I get better transpo and can get to a ‘well established’ piercing shop.

*** ALWAYS a good idea. Always. Good luck. — k e i t h   a l e x a n d e r w w w . n o o t r o p e . n e t www.modernamerican.com a p p   n y c – e n d   t r a n s m i s s i o n –

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<snip of my barbell was to short, now what to do? You trusted this piercer to put a needle through your tongue, when the piercing was in the process of not working out, you should have called this piercer. Every time I do a tongue, I inform the client of exactly what guage and length jewelry I am giving them,  I also mention that if the client notices that the barbell is in anyway too short, we will immediately put a longer barbell in free of charge.  (I’ve never had to do this, but of course it may one day happen)       Any good shop should be able to answer all of your questions before, during, and after the piercing.  I tell every client who walks through my door to call me if they have any questions or problems.  When they fail to call if they have a problem, then I have very little pity for them. Jef, 270 lbs of Stage Dive             Luna Sea                                    / Evolution 286 Thayer Street, Providence,RI  / 285 Main St, Woonsocket RI 401.272.5862                              / 401.766.2181

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Ok (*insert mean rude name here*)I’ll do this once and that’s it. Normally i dont see a reason to justify my post, but since you are a bit biased, seeing that you are APP i’ll do my best to keep this interesting for you. APP membership is not easy to come by you are right. But it used to be very easy to get. "Here fill this out, take a few snap shots and thats it." Yes now its "walk around your studio with a video and fill this out. send us some spore test" Great. Things have changed since the last year or so. But what about those people that got it when it WAS easy? And why doesnt APP do shops. I think they should, i also think that APP should have someone go to each shop and inspect it first hand to really see the shop in person, and whatch the piercer do thepiercing. I would gladly pay a few extra dollars on membership dues for that. But i know thats not going to happen anytime soon….I have already talked to Pat in OHabout it. And NO i dont think you can keep a piercing studi "Clean/sterile" in a hair salon. If you have to walk through the salon to get to the piercing fuckin’ forget it! period. I know a bit about this becasue when i first started peircing i worked out of a hair. No that i know better i would never do it again and strogly discourge anyone from doing so themselves. I dont even like the idea of Tattoo and Piercing in the same building either. Even with a Hepa filter…but thats just me be a "pompousass" And you and i both know that its very rare to have a 5/8" barbell in a tongue for a first peirce..it does happen some times, but she paniced, her barbell sunk into her tongue! Are you going to go back to the person you accuse of hurting you! Most people wont.; You and i might, but that not to say she would. It was a fuckin’ relevant question. How did this person become APP in a hair studio! You people need to wake up and realize that the APP in not the end all be all of piercing. I know really bad piercers that are APP members and its quite sad. You dont go on piercing ability, you go on shop cleanliness, which is great. I am formost about health and saftey!  You never watch the people pierce so dont take up for them there. And it wasnt a question about whether the shop was clean or not, it was a judgement call on the piercers behalf to use a short barbell, when what sounds like a longer one would have beenbetter. We all make mistakes, ive done, and i am sure you have made them also if you want to admit it or not. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am the original poster… *** Hi, I’m Keith. I’m more like a original lithograph. Here is the problem. I come in, ask alot of questions about his experience and such. He claims that he was ‘affiliated’ with the APP. I have now found there are no APP members in the state of Arkansas. *** Did you ask to see proof? Were all the other questions answered to your satisfaction? I assume they were. You let him proceed. I am NOT blaming you here. Let’s get that straight right away before all the usual suspects chime in. I did call a studio in Memphis, and he advised me 5.8 was a dumb thing for the guy to pierce me with, and told me to take it out. *** Well, it may have been a bad thing for you, but for some people, 5/8 is just fine. Elvis over there, needs to SEE something before making a proclamation. In your case, it seems, 5/8 was too short. So upsize asap. Or get the refund. So I tried, but I could not get a hold of the bells. It was evening now, and I made an appointment with a dentist first thing in the morning. When I awoke, the bead was firmly embedded in my top toungue. The dentist had to anethesize my tounge, and clamp it forcing the ball to pop out. I felt this, and it hurt 100 times worse than the pierce. Then they used hemostats to unscrew it. Lemme tell ya, I sympathize, I really do. I question the dentist but that’s another story. Now tell me it is my fault… *** Placing blame, is one thing I avoid. Obviously, you trusted someone and were let down. Maybe, I can be faulted with trusting a so called professional, but other than that. I didnt eat for three days, I didnt play with it, and did after care religiously, but 5/8 was just too dang short. *** It sure was. The piercer is still on vacation. That is why I have not spoke with him yet. *** Well, let us know how that goes. And let him know members of the APP board read RAB and just may give him a call. And you say a repierce by him? You gotta be kidding right? *** You didn’t say he sucked. You said he answered your questions and so on. You didn’t say placement was off. The bbell was too short. A simple matter to correct. Trust me, I am no defender of hacks. Was he a hack? I was considering a Prince Albert, but after that experience I would be scared my thing would fall off or something… *** Things (penises) do not fall off, they simply explode. I’ll wait till I get better transpo and can get to a ‘well established’ piercing shop. *** ALWAYS a good idea. Always. Good luck. — k e i t h   a l e x a n d e r w w w . n o o t r o p e . n e t www.modernamerican.com a p p   n y c – e n d   t r a n s m i s s i o n –

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Ok (*insert mean rude name here*)I’ll do this once and that’s it.

Whew, that’s a relief. <snip ranting I know a bit about this becasue when i first started peircing i worked out of a hair.

I bet that gets a little crowded. What type of shampoo did you use to clean your shop? <snip more How did this person become APP in a hair studio!

They most likely didn’t. People move. People get new jobs. People lie. Pick one. You people need to wake up and realize that the APP in not the end all be all of piercing. I know really bad piercers that are APP members and its quite sad. You dont go on piercing ability, you go on shop cleanliness, which is great. I am formost about health and saftey!  You never watch the people pierce so dont take up for them there. And it wasnt a question about whether the shop was clean or not, it was a judgement call on the piercers behalf to use a short barbell, when what sounds like a longer one would have beenbetter. We all make mistakes, ive done, and i am sure you have made them also if you want to admit it or not.

Was this rant directed at Keith? If so, you really wasted a bunch of time typing it all out because what he said basically agrees with what you said, only he said it better and he can spell and conjugate verbs. iniquity "Her vocabulary was bad like… whatever." – Unknown

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Its always fun when people resort to making fun of ones typing errors. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok (*insert mean rude name here*)I’ll do this once and that’s it. Whew, that’s a relief. <snip ranting I know a bit about this becasue when i first started peircing i worked out of a hair. I bet that gets a little crowded. What type of shampoo did you use to clean your shop? <snip more How did this person become APP in a hair studio! They most likely didn’t. People move. People get new jobs. People lie. Pick one. You people need to wake up and realize that the APP in not the end all be all of piercing. I know really bad piercers that are APP members and its quite sad. You dont go on piercing ability, you go on shop cleanliness, which is great. I am formost about health and saftey!  You never watch the people pierce so dont take up for them there. And it wasnt a question about whether the shop was clean or not, it was a judgement call on the piercers behalf to use a short barbell, when what sounds like a longer one would have beenbetter. We all make mistakes, ive done, and i am sure you have made them also if you want to admit it or not. Was this rant directed at Keith? If so, you really wasted a bunch of time typing it all out because what he said basically agrees with what you said, only he said it better and he can spell and conjugate verbs. iniquity "Her vocabulary was bad like… whatever." – Unknown

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<snip the usual crap Yay, i got my name in a header! iniquity "Her vocabulary was bad like… whatever." – Unknown

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Its always fun when people resort to making fun of ones typing errors.

I’m sorry, it just struck me funny. iniquity "Her vocabulary was bad like… whatever." – Unknown

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<snip the usual crap Yay, i got my name in a header! iniquity

[heidi does the requisite fan dance and congratulates iniquity] you go girl! heidi — http://www.bmeworld.com/heidi RAB FAQS: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bodyart RAB Welcome FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bodyart/netiquette

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Normally i dont see a reason to justify my post, but since you are a bit biased, seeing that you are APP i’ll do my best to keep this interesting for you.

*** I have a long attention span. But go right ahead. And remember, the piercer in question, was NOT APP. Even so, I have no interest in taking sides, anywhere. And believe me, I’ve been a thorn in the side of at least three versions of the APP board of directors. APP membership is not easy to come by you are right. But it used to be very easy to get.

*** Sure, easy to anyone who cared to follow the procedures and so on. Then AND now. "Here fill this out, take a few snap shots and thats it."

*** Yeah, and if those pictures were of a rathole, did they get the membership? No. If they failed the test? No. Should it be IMPOSSIBLE to get in? No. Just a few simple, basic minimum standards. Yes now its "walk around your studio with a video and fill this out. send us some spore test" Great. Things have changed since the last year or so.

*** In any event, this is the closest thing Pro’s have to a standard bearer. Lemme see your standards of conduct. Any video? Remember, these are MINIMUMS. You can go above and beyond if you like, but spore tests, ultrasonics, yadda yadda, are the minimum. Wanna do away with them? But what about those people that got it when it WAS easy?

*** Never was EASY. Easy enough, if you cared about it. And why doesnt APP do shops. I think they should, i also think that APP should have someone go to each shop and inspect it first hand to really see the shop in person, and whatch the piercer do thepiercing.

*** Cool. Volunteer to the position. Does the ADA have a person doing that? DO you think its reasonable or even feasable? And what? Watch all 36 of the piercings that are safe to do? What? Wait around till a pair of dydoes comes in so Inspector General can sign off? Come on. BTW, start an org, I wanna join. The APP specifically says it does not endorse SKILL. Simply that certain standards are adhered to. Caveat Emptor. That’s greek for: The fish eggs are gone. I would gladly pay a few extra dollars on membership dues for that.

*** Are you a member? I am too lazy to search the APP site. That, and I’m typing this with one hand. So, are you a member? Define a FEW extra dollars for people to visit and take RESIDENCE at a shop to see everything. Imma take that Pie in the Sky and…. But i know thats not going to happen anytime soon….I have already talked to Pat in OHabout it.

*** Thats’s nice. Say hello next time. Name dropping is as lame as spelling flames. So what did _Pat_ have to say about it? And NO i dont think you can keep a piercing studi "Clean/sterile" in a hair salon.

*** And YES, you can. Takes more work, but a clean room can be had. Is it my idea, of a good idea? No. If you have to walk through the salon to get to the piercing fuckin’ forget it! period.

*** Fuck you and your *period*. People walk through CONSTRUCTION SITES coming to a piercing. Air is everywhere. Air is not sterile. A separate suite of rooms, with HEPA filters and good HVAC installed, can be used safely. You OK with shops that allow smoking in the waiting room? I know a bit about this becasue when i first started peircing i worked out of a hair.

*** Dude, yer spelling sucks. A piercer should never spell: Piercing, wrong. My greatest fear, actually. That, and spelling my name wrong… Just because the place YOU worked at, sucked ass, does NOT mean, everyplace, sucks ass. No that i know better i would never do it again and strogly discourge anyone from doing so themselves. I dont even like the idea of Tattoo and Piercing in the same building either. Even with a Hepa filter…but thats just me be a "pompousass"

*** I don’t like the sound of the Tattoo machines, that’s MY objection. But given a seperate room and utilities, it can work. SAME BUILDING? Like, first floor and third? THAT’S no good, either? Yer HardCore. Look, my set-up right now is not as great as I’d like it to be. So changes are being made, but no one is getting diseases because the are 20 feet from a corset. If the studio in the hair salon is kept SCRUPUR..er… VERY clean, it can work. Well sealed doors… filters… proximity to other services… Sure, an OR is great, but I’d rather have Denise Gianetta do my apadravya, at a funky-ass hair salon in Seattle, then in an OR at Saint Vincents. You CAN keep the space clean. Did he use too short a bbell? Obviously. Did he lie about his affilianions? Yes. Horse whip him. That’s MY kinda organization. And you and i both know that its very rare to have a 5/8" barbell in a tongue for a first peirce..

*** Bullshit. I do many TIP piercings that we use 5/8ths for. It’s ALL relative, buddy. pIIIIIIIIerce, damnit. With an  *I*. Lemme see yer aftercare, you may want me to proof read it for you and your studio. No charge. it does happen some times, but she paniced, her barbell sunk into her tongue!

*** And? Yeah, it was too small. The piercer lied about APP membership, my guess would be that he’s a piece of shit. Reread my posts. Did the panic, cause the problem? Interesting slip, no? Are you going to go back to the person you accuse of hurting you! Most people wont.;

*** Hell yes, I’m going to see what’s up. I said LET HIM SEE IT. Give him a chance to fix it. Or hit him with a chair. You and i might, but that not to say she would.

*** Dude, type slower for me. It was a fuckin’ relevant question.

*** I didn’t say it wasn’t. I mean… I didn’t say it _fucking_ wasn’t. How did this person become APP in a hair studio!

*** THEY DIDN’T. THEY WEREN’T. THEY LIED! But you CAN have a clean room in a hair studio Yer a dick. Whoops. Sorry. You people need to wake up

*** Oh shut up already. I’m indulging you, ya know. *YOU PEOPLE* I love that. I’ll join you. Really, I will. Wake me up. ASAP, please. I’ve been asleep, so, so many years. I need a shave. Tell is how it REALLY is, friend. Here, take my soapbox. and realize that the APP in not the end all be all of piercing.

*** Amen, brother. The best piercers I know ain’t even APP. Go friggin’ figure, eh? I know really bad piercers that are APP members and its quite sad.

ALL piercers have detractors. Except me of course, I have an entire city. But still… I know what you’re saying, but…. It’s not sad. It’s life. A bad piercing is one thing.. a Hep factory is another. Dig my meaning? Yer right, I’ve seen some APP shops that were NOT the best. And then, some APP shops like like BodyWork Prod, et al, that ARE the best. But believe me, even the second rate APP shops are MILES ahead of the most others. Not all, of course, but the majority. Ever been to St. Marks Place in NYC? And again, I’m no great APP supporter. I joined for the free t-shirt. That, and the manual. We all make mistakes, ive done, and i am sure you have made them also if you want to admit it or not.

*** Dude, been here long? Yeah, I make mistakes. Bite me. I miss Rebekka. — k e i t h   a l e x a n d e r w w w . n o o t r o p e . n e t www.modernamerican.com a p p   n y c – e n d   t r a n s m i s s i o n –

Response:

*** I have a long attention span. But go right ahead. And remember, the piercer in question, was NOT APP. Even so, I have no interest in taking sides, anywhere. And believe me, I’ve been a thorn in the side of at least three versions of the APP board of directors.

How’s that? What have you done?… Has any of it made a differance? *** Sure, easy to anyone who cared to follow the procedures and so on. Then AND now.

No, more like they could use the APP as a badge on their arm. Most piercees dont know what the APP is. They think its the guidelines of body piercing. And if a shop can put the APP logo in an ad it gives them an edge wheter or not they uphold the min. standards after they gain membership. *** Yeah, and if those pictures were of a rathole, did they get the membership? No. If they failed the test? No. Should it be IMPOSSIBLE to get in? No. Just a few simple, basic minimum standards.

Whos to say if those pictures truly came from their studio? *** In any event, this is the closest thing Pro’s have to a standard bearer. Lemme see your standards of conduct. Any video?

Sure, ask (*name drop goes here*) Pat about it. Primal Urge – Ft. Wayne IN. (No i didnt name it by the way, and i know that there are several other Primal Urges out there. No i didnt own it i just worked there.) Remember, these are MINIMUMS. You can go above and beyond if you like, but spore tests, ultrasonics, yadda yadda, are the minimum. Wanna do away with them?

 Nope, where did you get that from? *** Never was EASY. Easy enough, if you cared about it.

Yes it was. No it wasnt, yes it was…no, no it wasnt…ummmm…  yes it was. *** Cool. Volunteer to the position. I have Does the ADA have a person doing that?

No, but it would nice if they did. DO you think its reasonable or even feasable? Yes And what? Watch all 36 of the piercings that are safe to do? What? Wait around till a pair of dydoes comes in so Inspector General can sign off? Come on.

Nope, only takes a couple to watch the piercer cross contaminate or not. How they handle their Bio. and so on. I dont think there is a comprimise when it comes to health and saftey. BTW, start an org, I wanna join.

Havent got the time to build a club house right now, ill put you on a waiting list however. The APP specifically says it does not endorse SKILL. Simply that certain standards are adhered to. Caveat Emptor. That’s greek for: The fish eggs are gone.

Ver gosnt de tinki winki, der plunk, spork bork bork. is swedish for . Stop looking at the world through your asshole.Drink my piss I think. or something like that. I would gladly pay a few extra dollars on membership dues for that. *** Are you a member?

Nope. I am too lazy to search the APP site. That, and I’m typing this with one hand.

Hot date eh? So, are you a member?

Nope, i have the manual, i know the people involved, been to the Vegas meetings and so on. Bought the shirt. Define a FEW extra dollars for people to visit and take RESIDENCE at a shop to see everything.

$50-60 dollars extra a year maybe…havent done the math on it. And if it was done right the person in charge could make a month or so out of it. You dont have to stay in the city longer then a day. I told them (APP) i would gladly get on a GrayHound bus dedicate a month or however long and do it.Whilst still in IN i had been talking to the City Board of Health (Jim Matis) about doing the inspections for the Tattoo and piercing shops there. Imma take that Pie in the Sky and….

I’ll get me coat. *** Thats’s nice. Say hello next time. Name dropping is as lame as spelling flames.

Oh not interested? So what did _Pat_ have to say about it?

Not a lot really, aksed if i would mind if he put my name forward for the new workshops that they are working on. *** And YES, you can. Takes more work, but a clean room can be had. Is it my idea, of a good idea? No.

Yawn…circles. *** Fuck you and your *period*. People walk through CONSTRUCTION SITES coming to a piercing. Air is everywhere. Air is not sterile. A separate suite of rooms, with HEPA filters and good HVAC installed, can be used safely.

Carefull there sminki pinki, those are fighting words. Agree with the last bit…not the fuck you though. My, my, my. You crazy kids..with the tough attitudes thousands of miles away. You OK with shops that allow smoking in the waiting room?

Nope, nor anyone under the age of 18 in the shop. No food or drink in the back room. So on and so forth. *** Dude, yer spelling sucks. A piercer should never spell: Piercing, wrong. My greatest fear, actually. That, and spelling my name wrong…

Sorry "Dude" .Typing fast. no spell ckeck like the rest of you. Just because the place YOU worked at, sucked ass, does NOT mean, everyplace, sucks ass.

More fighting words eh?… How do you know that wher i worked at sucked ass? You didnt know the name of it till i just told you. The one in Chicago, yeah, it might have sucked as far as cleanliness goes but that was about 5 years ago. Before i pulled my head out of my ass. *** I don’t like the sound of the Tattoo machines, that’s MY objection. But given a seperate room and utilities, it can work. SAME BUILDING? Like, first floor and third? THAT’S no good, either? Yer HardCore.

Dont like the sound either, also music is very important, most tattooist that i have worked withg do like slow relaxing music while they are tattooing, so there is a bit of a problem with that, because i want the nice relaxing music. Id rather pierce to that them White Zombie or Limp Biz-kat (tee hee) Look, my set-up right now is not as great as I’d like it to be. So changes are being made, but no one is getting diseases because the are 20 feet from a corset. If the studio in the hair salon is kept SCRUPUR..er… VERY clean, it can work. Well sealed doors… filters… proximity to other services… Sure, an OR is great, but I’d rather have Denise Gianetta do my apadravya, at a funky-ass hair salon in Seattle, then in an OR at Saint Vincents.

You CAN keep the space clean.

Did he use too short a bbell? Obviously. Did he lie about his affilianions? Yes.

Bastard.   Oh not you, him. Horse whip him. That’s MY kinda organization.

Wait, more agreeing….christ. *** Bullshit. I do many TIP piercings that we use 5/8ths for. It’s ALL relative, buddy.

Thats nice, and tip piercings to me are a bit silly, ill do them if they ask for it, but i will always tell them about the hazards or it. even a normal tongue piercing for that mater. And we were not talking about tip piercings were we? Didnt think so. pIIIIIIIIerce, damnit. With an  *I*.

I guess you dont make typeing errors huh? Lemme see yer aftercare, you may want me to proof read it for you and your studio. No charge.

No thanks i have spell check there. *** And? Yeah, it was too small. The piercer lied about APP membership, my guess would be that he’s a piece of shit. Reread my posts.

….Prob. Did the panic, cause the problem? Interesting slip, no?

*** Hell yes, I’m going to see what’s up. I said LET HIM SEE IT. Give him a chance to fix it.

Fix it? He more then likely would have taken it out the smae way the person describe, and maybe put a longer one it. That would have been the only differance that i would have seen. What did the dentist do wrong, in your mind that is? Not taking up for him.. I hate dentist with a passion. Or hit him with a chair.

heheh *** Dude, type slower for me.

Sorry partner. y-o-u a-n-d -i- m-i-g-h-t-,b-u-t- t-h-a-t-s -n-o-t- -s-a-y- s-h-e- w-o-u-l-d *** I didn’t say it wasn’t.

Hmmm, Pompous ass ring a bell, ask relevent questions is what you said. I mean… I didn’t say it _fucking_ wasn’t. *** THEY DIDN’T. THEY WEREN’T. THEY LIED!

But little girl we didnt know that when the story first started. But you CAN have a clean room in a hair studio

Nope Yer a dick. Whoops. Sorry.

Yep, and?   Dont be sorry. Your just rustling up some childhood memories where you were never given the chance to talk, and say your peace..and everyone accused you of being a stupid shit. its ok…Lash out. Its ok. You are right. You have always been right. You are smart. Feel better. *** Oh shut up already. I’m indulging you, ya know.

Why thank you i havent had a chew toy in a while. *YOU PEOPLE* I love that. I’ll join you. Really, I will. Wake me up. ASAP, please. I’ve been asleep, so, so many years. I need a shave.

You are on the list. Tell is how it REALLY is, friend.

To be continued Here, take my soapbox.

Could you clean it off first, i dont wanna be standing in any of your shit. and realize that the APP in not the end all be all of piercing. *** Amen, brother. The best piercers I know ain’t even APP. Go friggin’ figure, eh?

Same here. I am not Anti-APP i just dont think people should be able to hide behind it. ALL piercers have detractors. Except me of course, I have an entire city. But still… I know what you’re saying, but…. It’s not sad. It’s life. A bad piercing is one thing.. a Hep factory is another. Dig my meaning? Yer right, I’ve seen some APP shops that were NOT the best. And then, some APP shops like like BodyWork Prod, et al, that ARE the best. But believe me, even the second rate APP shops are MILES ahead of the most others. Not all, of course, but the majority. Ever been to St. Marks Place in NYC?

Yes i agree and nope never been to  St. Marks And again, I’m no great APP supporter. I joined for the free t-shirt. That, and the manual.

Not a bad product eh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We all make mistakes, ive done, and i

… read more »

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Just because the place YOU worked at, sucked ass, does NOT mean, everyplace, sucks ass.

Dude. When in doubt, leave it out. melou

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – *** I have a long attention span. But go right ahead. And remember, the piercer in question, was NOT APP. Even so, I have no interest in taking sides, anywhere. And believe me, I’ve been a thorn in the side of at least three versions of the APP board of directors. Dont like the sound either, also music is very important, most tattooist that i have worked withg do like slow relaxing music while they are tattooing, so there is a bit of a problem with that, because i want the nice relaxing music. Id rather pierce to that them White Zombie or Limp Biz-kat (tee hee)

Ill fix that before, Clever Keith pops his eagle eye around here. I like relaxing music, tattooist i have worked with, the majority didnt.

Response:

<snip Hmmm. Was this written by the same person? If it was, thanks for spending a little more time with the presantation of what you have to say. I have sent both to forensic evidence experts in Virginia to confirm. It’s like night and day. I find it hard to believe. Buuut.. — Quickly… all members paying 50$ more will not pay for a member on a bus CONSTANTLY touring the country inspecting. But like I said, start an org. Yes, I have blasted a few sitting boards with many ideas for improving the situation. No, I can not say that any particular idea has been adopted. And I can say that I have been disappointed many times in the past. I feel the board, sitting now, however, is the best we have ever had and I forsee good things. A clean room can be had in a hair salon. A clean room can be had almost anywhere. Is it where I’d like to get piercing? Depends on the piercer. — Anyway, nice response. — k e i t h   a l e x a n d e r w w w . n o o t r o p e . n e t www.modernamerican.com a p p   n y c – e n d   t r a n s m i s s i o n –

Response:

This comes from Keith Alexander: And NO i dont think you can keep a piercing studi "Clean/sterile" in a hair salon. *** And YES, you can. Takes more work, but a clean room can be had. Is it my idea, of a good idea? No. If you have to walk through the salon to get to the piercing fuckin’ forget it! period. *** Fuck you and your *period*. People walk through CONSTRUCTION SITES coming to a piercing. Air is everywhere. Air is not sterile. A separate suite of rooms, with HEPA filters and good HVAC installed, can be used safely.

I’ve seen a piercing studio in a *flea market.* This is his setup: * He has an enclosed area with roof, four solid walls and a gasketed door. * He has a multistage air filtration system: a HEPA filter to get out the big chunks, a VLSI-2 air filter (HEPA ain’t shit compared to this kind of filter–this is what semiconductor companies use on their clean rooms; it will remove particles half the size of a HEPA filter. He changes the HEPA filter every month and the VLSI-2 every three months–which is actually too frequently with the HEPA backing it up.) after that, and 2psi overpressure to keep the dust from coming in when the door’s open. This air cleaner runs continually, not just when the flea market’s open. (Yeah, I asked. The thing is huge.) And there’s an automatic door closer. * He has monthly spore testing on his autoclave and keeps the results in a book hanging on the wall. And there’s a sheet of paper in there that has "what this means" on it. * A clipboard next to that has the latest autoclave load testing integrator displayed for all to see. * He sprays down the entire area with hospital-grade germicides while you’re standing there before he lets you sit down. How germs can get in that room, I don’t know, but this is his policy. He did cut corners, though. The chair he sits in is one of those cheap steel folding jobs, and the piercee’s chair looks like he stole it from an office on Fort Bragg. (It’s acceptable because he’s only doing ears, facial piercings and nipples.) But that’s about the only place he cut corners. Would I get pierced in this room? Hell, I’d get open-heart surgery in this room. My wife got her eyebrow pierced there. — –jmowreader MacSalon Website–http://www.foto.infi.net/~lormo/index.html

Response:

I just recentley went through a terrible ordeal with my toungue pierceing. The piercer pierced me and placed in 5/8 length jewelry instead of what I now find is necessary to use 3/4 or greater. My question is would it be "proper" for me to take some printed information I have obtained since then, prove that he screwed up and ask for my money back? I feel like he was the professional. He insisted that 5/8 was adequate for a new pierce. I felt like since he was APP it would be ok. My toungue swelled and physically ’sucked’ one of the balls into my toungue. A dentist had to anethesize my tounge and clamp my toungue forcing it to pop back out and unscrew it with hemostats. I just feel like I was cheated. Am I right for feeling this way?

Response:

I just recentley went through a terrible ordeal with my toungue pierceing. The piercer pierced me and placed in 5/8 length jewelry instead of what I now find is necessary to use 3/4 or greater. My question is would it be "proper" for me to take some printed information I have obtained since then, prove that he screwed up and ask for my money back? I feel like he was the professional. He insisted that 5/8 was adequate for a new pierce. I felt like since he was APP it would be ok. My toungue swelled and physically ’sucked’ one of the balls into my toungue. A dentist had to anethesize my tounge and clamp my toungue forcing it to pop back out and unscrew it with hemostats. I just feel like I was cheated. Am I right for feeling this way?

Sorry to hear about your piercing hell and I can completely understand how you feel. As far as I know there is no set guidelines for piercing. The thing with tongues is that the piercing will really vary on your tongue. It is always a good idea to have quite a long bar put in the tongue to compensate for any swelling. The thing is the piercier will put in a bar that they think will do this. There is no set length that they have to put in although it is advisable to have as long as possible in there. You can try getting your money back – but I don’t think you will get it. If you think that this piercing was totally done wrong and your dentist can give evidence to support this you could take up a case up with your local health authority so no one else has to go through this. Good luck and hope that if you have it done again it goes ok. Clarey8 Before you buy.

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As a rule I never pay for a pierce. Piercers get their thrills poking holes so you need to charge them instead. It’s that pardigm shift thing…

Response:

My question is would it be "proper" for me to take some printed information I have obtained since then, prove that he screwed up and ask for my money back?

     Well, that depends. Did you sign a waiver before the pierce saying you weren’t going to do that? "Lagartixa" <<Harlequin ~Filha de Bimba nao pode cair~ "We saw her eating bugs one day, so we decided to name her after a gecko…"

Response:

I felt like since he was APP it would be ok. My toungue swelled and physically ’sucked’ one of the balls into my toungue. A dentist had to anethesize my tounge and clamp my toungue forcing it to pop back out and unscrew it with hemostats. I just feel like I was cheated. Am I right for feeling this way?

APP seems like a social club, mostly. Piercers become members by sucking up to the APP board and aping their actions and procedures. Members do not necessarily know much about piercing, as evidenced by your unfortunate experience.   Please post the name of the shop and state it is in.  I am trying to get information on this group as I prepare a file on the same.  Thanks!

Response:

insisted that 5/8 was adequate for a new pierce. I felt like since he was APP it would be ok. My toungue swelled and physically ’sucked’ one of the balls into my toungue. A dentist had to anethesize my tounge and clamp my toungue forcing it to pop back out and unscrew it with hemostats. I just feel like I was cheated. Am I right for feeling this way?

APP seems like mostly a social club.  You join by aping the board and kissing its collective ass.  Please post the shop and State as I’m trying to get info on this sham APP organization.  As your unfortunate experience shows, APP members can’t be trusted to know their ass from a hole in the ground, when it comes to piercing.  Other folks be warned!

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state it is in.  I am trying to get information on this group as I prepare a file on the same.  Thanks!

maybe people can gather the horror stories for shops that are NOT APP. then we can compare notes. sounds fun to me. do you think we will get many stories? michael mulcahy

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state it is in.  I am trying to get information on this group as I prepare a file on the same.  Thanks! maybe people can gather the horror stories for shops that are NOT APP. then we can compare notes. sounds fun to me. do you think we will get many stories?

Rather than horror stories about shops that ARE APP?   Something about your suggestion doesnt quite sit right…. p0ok k

Response:

 michael: Rather than horror stories about shops that ARE APP?   pOok : Something about your suggestion doesnt quite sit right….

let’s get every story about every piercing from anywhere, then track all aspects of the piercing. horror stories abound: app vs. non-app, insured-not, gunned-needled, hibaclens-seasalt, turn the jewelry-not. if the guy spewing about the bad or inconsistency of the app really wants to start an organization similar to, but superior to, the app, more power to him. i just want to see how he does it. with all of the people that are on the board, members, non-member but app friendly piercers, doctors, dentists, health educators ect. trying to help with the app, with keeping up on the issues that are relevant to the piercing industry. if the mystery poster thinks s/he can come up with the better system, rock on. if you aren’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. inappropriate things are done everyday by people in power and control that negatively affect people and their lives. doctors and dentists lose patients, battles with disease and have patients that don’t follow instructions properly. if i walk on my newly healed leg to soon after surgery it may not heal properly, i could blame the incompetent surgeon…. anyway, welcome to thursday scott

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if you aren’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.

I’m not part of the peace-stragegies between india and pakistan… Am I the reason theyre still fighting? p0ok

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if you aren’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. I’m not part of the peace-stragegies between india and pakistan… Am I the reason theyre still fighting?

Yep you sure are,,,, YOU and MAMU  and I want you to STOP IT right now,, don’t make me come back there…. wait til you father gets home Ray — TATTOO=stained glass on my soul Contact me for your shop insurance needs http://home.att.net/~tat-ins/

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if you aren’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. I’m not part of the peace-stragegies between india and pakistan…

Stragegies?  What the hell was that?   Give me a sedagive! p0ok

Response:

5X3 wrote with intent if you aren’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. I’m not part of the peace-stragegies between india and pakistan… Am I the reason theyre still fighting?

i can’t comment without more info on your personal life.:) if you know what you meant, you know what i meant. scott

Response:

if you aren’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. I’m not part of the peace-stragegies between india and pakistan… Am I the reason theyre still fighting?

*Yes and No. You could organize demonstrations, protest marches, BARRICADES. Take a stand. for your comparison: There are just too many manu’s. World peace is utopia as much as I’d want it. It conflicts with the human nature. As long as you have humans , you’ll have problems. Greed, selfishness,envy, jalousy, fear, hate. it’ll go with us eventually. Then bacteria will take over, right Nina? Corine "For four-fifths of our history, our planet was populated by pond scum."     — J.W. Schopf To err is human, it won’t help you connect though when replying.

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Question:

Hi, Can anyone help me. I’m looking for used or at least not too expensive equipment. I live in Dorset,U.K.

Response:

http://www.rossfarm.co.uk/_tablsite/tbl_bord.htm it isn’t used, but they’ve got good prices. enjoy. j – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Can anyone help me. I’m looking for used or at least not too expensive equipment. I live in Dorset,U.K.

Response:

Hi, Can anyone help me. I’m looking for used or at least not too expensive equipment. I live in Dorset,U.K.

What kind of equipment? Tattoo machines? Piercing needles? Silicone bOOb implants? Nina — C’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot.                         Louis Pasteur http://members.xoom.com/critterwoman

Response:

Hi, Can anyone help me. I’m looking for used or at least not too expensive equipment. I live in Dorset,U.K. What kind of equipment? Tattoo machines? Piercing needles? Silicone bOOb implants?

Penis extensions, old toiletries……the list is endless! I like the equipment I play with to have been used but not overused…. Saiira

Response:

Question:

Is anyone here going to the Northern Ink Exposure here in Toronto?  I want to go, but I don’t think my funds will allow it. *dammit*  I’ve never been to anything like that before and would LOVE to go. The most I’ve been to was when my university did a body art show, which was actually quite cool. Jen — http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Booth/5924/ "They’re coming to get me, they don’t want to let me, stand in the bright lights too long." Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Is anyone here going to the Northern Ink Exposure here in Toronto?

I’m going to say probably. There are a ton of things happening up here that weekend, but we had a BLAST last year and I’d like to do it again. So I guess my official answer to your question is "I don’t know". Wasn’t that helpful??  :^) At any rate, when we get closer to the time of the NIX convention and I know more I’ll post it here… Dana Bitch 16  Wench 22 ‘96 FXDS-Conv "Roxie"

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Is anyone here going to the Northern Ink Exposure here in Toronto?  I want to go, but I don’t think my funds will allow it. *dammit*  I’ve never been to anything like that before and would LOVE to go. The most I’ve been to was when my university did a body art show, which was actually quite cool. Jen

abbie and I -may- be going. As with many other people, it will depend a lot on finances. |+/-1 — "Well, some people’s jesus is prozac, and some people’s jesus is the devil."                         – abbie      *Amputate the ‘pinkies’ to respond.*

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Susan and I *MAY* go to northern ink exposure too.   Depends a bit on my level of avarice as I am still working on getting those last few drops of cash out of my latest client. We sure are thinking though.   It seems like it will be one of the better shows. Susan could bring her tattoo machines and do Jenirenes thumb but only after a thorough psychological examination.   I of course will be conducting the exam but Dr. Yttrx may assist. Geoffrey

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thumb but only after a thorough psychological examination.   I of course will be conducting the exam but Dr. Yttrx may assist.

*Whoa….you into necromancy Geoff? You’re full of surprises, indeed…. <g Corine A man generally has two reasons for doing a thing. One that sounds good, and a real one.   –J.Pierpoint Morgan

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Jenirenes : thumb but only after : a thorough psychological examination.   I of course will be conducting the : exam but Dr. Yttrx may assist. : : *Whoa….you into necromancy Geoff? You’re full of surprises, indeed…. <g Not exactly … Geoffrey

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My So and I will most definitely be there, throwing finances to the wind. We can’t really be expected to stay in Tattoo Hell…uh…Montreal all summer, ya know. Dann – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is anyone here going to the Northern Ink Exposure here in Toronto?  I want to go, but I don’t think my funds will allow it. *dammit*  I’ve never been to anything like that before and would LOVE to go. The most I’ve been to was when my university did a body art show, which was actually quite cool. Jen — http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Booth/5924/ "They’re coming to get me, they don’t want to let me, stand in the bright lights too long." Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Is anyone here going to the Northern Ink Exposure here in Toronto?  I want to go, but I don’t think my funds will allow it. *dammit*  I’ve never been to anything like that before and would LOVE to go. The most I’ve been to was when my university did a body art show, which was actually quite cool.

I’ll be there, hopefully arriving the 15th pending babysittage and my ability to score crashspace in TO. ManWoman whows up the 16th. Fire dancing, ThEnigma’s Puzziliion, and the latest Betsy Johnson collection…. I am SO going to be there for the grand opening the 17th! MUNCH anyone? ===    Denise Robinson  http://www.ambient.on.ca === "Ultimately, compassion is cheap, why is it so hard to give a little, even if in thought alone."  —Chumley 5/99 "Call it overactive drive for survival, but I personally find weakness downright repulsive."  —Baital 5/99

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I’ll be there, hopefully arriving the 15th pending babysittage and my ability to score crashspace in TO. ManWoman whows up the 16th. Fire dancing, ThEnigma’s Puzziliion, and the latest Betsy Johnson collection…. I am SO going to be there for the grand opening the 17th! MUNCH anyone?

I’d really love to go, but we’re currently financially strapped and we’l probably be moving at the same time too..epp…though I’m sure that if a Munch was planned I would attend for sure Ashen. Soon to be moving out of Oakville hell and into Toronto itself *yayh*

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Will be arriving just in time for the evening of the 17th, leaving the 21st during the day…and would most definitely join a munch. Dann – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is anyone here going to the Northern Ink Exposure here in Toronto?  I want to go, but I don’t think my funds will allow it. *dammit*  I’ve never been to anything like that before and would LOVE to go. The most I’ve been to was when my university did a body art show, which was actually quite cool. I’ll be there, hopefully arriving the 15th pending babysittage and my ability to score crashspace in TO. ManWoman whows up the 16th. Fire dancing, ThEnigma’s Puzziliion, and the latest Betsy Johnson collection…. I am SO going to be there for the grand opening the 17th! MUNCH anyone? ===    Denise Robinson  http://www.ambient.on.ca === "Ultimately, compassion is cheap, why is it so hard to give a little, even if in thought alone."  —Chumley 5/99 "Call it overactive drive for survival, but I personally find weakness downright repulsive."  —Baital 5/99

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Does anyone know exactly when and where it is?  I know that it is this weekend in Toronto… Christine — "Life is pain Highness.  Anyone who says different is selling something." Wesley from The Princess Bride

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Does anyone know exactly when and where it is?  I know that it is this weekend in Toronto…

It’s at the COLONY HOTEL, right near City Hall. It looks really well organized and definitely worth going to. Check their web page. If you go to BME, then click on EVENTS, you’ll find it.         Shannon BME: Body Modification Ezine                 http://www.BME.FreeQ.com/

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Check out this link for info: www.toronto.com/E/E/TORON/0023/03/94/cs1.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone know exactly when and where it is?  I know that it is this weekend in Toronto… Christine — "Life is pain Highness.  Anyone who says different is selling something." Wesley from The Princess Bride

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Check out this link for info: www.toronto.com/E/E/TORON/0023/03/94/cs1.html Does anyone know exactly when and where it is?  I know that it is this weekend in Toronto…

It’s on CHESTNUT ST. off of DUNDAS ST. at the COLONY HOTEL A couple of blocks away from the bus station. GREAT opening night by the way… Tahitian fire dancing, fashion show, and a bizarro show by Katzen, Enigma, the Neon Cowboy in the PUZZILLION.         Shannon BME: Body Modification Ezine                 http://www.BME.FreeQ.com/

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Question:

i’m off to london this weekend and i’m looking for a top quality tattooist for while i’m there. does anyone know of one? gillian

into you (St Johns Street Farringdon) Cheers, Ian

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i’m off to london this weekend and i’m looking for a top quality tattooist for while i’m there. does anyone know of one? gillian

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i’m off to london this weekend and i’m looking for a top quality tattooist for while i’m there. does anyone know of one? gillian

Bugs in Camden is pretty kewl! Dan Gold was working there a while back…if he’s still there throw yourself beneath his tattoo machines and expect something truly phat!!! XMickX *** "Results from animal tests are not transferable between species, and therefore cannot be used to guarantee product safety for humans… In reality these tests do not provide protection for consumers from unsafe products, but rather are used to protect corporations from legal liability." Herbert Gundersheimer, M.D.

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Question:

Someone kindly pointed me to the FAQ and I found the answer, in case anyone else was interested in the answer this is what it said…. <<My understanding is that there are three layers of skin: Scaly layer, epidermis, and dermis. Tattoo machines are adjusted to penetrate into the dermis layer but NOT *through* it (below it is the fat layer of the body). When the needles go into the sanitary tube they have a layer of ink on and between them. The needles make little holes in the skin, and the ink is deposited into the holes. This is why the skin has to be stretched so blobs of ink don’t stay. Otherwise, the skin will latch onto the needles, grab the ink from them and generally make a mess. Ink just put into the scaly layer would be replaced quickly and fade away. While ink into the epidermis will stay, my conjecture is that the dermis makes for more ink and perhaps a more vivid image. Nichole

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<<My understanding is that there are three layers of skin: Scaly layer, epidermis, and dermis. Tattoo machines are adjusted to penetrate into the dermis layer but NOT *through* it (below it is the fat layer of the body).

3 years of anatomy and physiology…and nobody ever told me about the scaly layer. Damn, got ripped off again! too tired ot argue…but I’d guess that the needles really do penetrate the dermis, probably lay ink into the epidermal tissue…just guessing here. timo

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone kindly pointed me to the FAQ and I found the answer, in case anyone else was interested in the answer this is what it said…. <<My understanding is that there are three layers of skin: Scaly layer, epidermis, and dermis. Tattoo machines are adjusted to penetrate into the dermis layer but NOT *through* it (below it is the fat layer of the body). When the needles go into the sanitary tube they have a layer of ink on and between them. The needles make little holes in the skin, and the ink is deposited into the holes. This is why the skin has to be stretched so blobs of ink don’t stay. Otherwise, the skin will latch onto the needles, grab the ink from them and generally make a mess. Ink just put into the scaly layer would be replaced quickly and fade away. While ink into the epidermis will stay, my conjecture is that the dermis makes for more ink and perhaps a more vivid image. Nichole

Hey, Close…There are actually two layers to the skin. The scaly layer is called the horny layer,(no I am not kidding),and it is part of the epidermis. The epidermis continually produces new skin cells and pushes them outward towards the outermost (horny) layer which is compromised exclusively of dead cells, which flake away regularly. The ink must be placed into the dermis to stay put. Furthermore, if the needles go to deep, into the subcutaneous layer, scarring could result after the wound heals. Tim

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Someone kindly pointed me to the FAQ and I found the answer, in case anyone else was interested in the answer this is what it said…. When the needles go into the sanitary tube they have a layer of ink on and between them. The needles make little holes in the skin, and the ink is deposited into the holes. This is why the skin has to be stretched so blobs of ink don’t stay. Otherwise, the skin will latch onto the needles, grab the ink from them and generally make a mess.

The skin doesn’t necessarily *have* to be stretched – I asked Trevor about that once (when he wasn’t stretching my skin) and he told me it was just something done if the skin was a little loose, and on areas where it can slide around a bit. Arms, legs, places like that where a good grip can be gotten, those he stretches; on my shoulders and back, and even my stomach (and that was a surprise) he  didn’t put any stretching pressure at all. And it the skin latches onto the needles, the needle bar needs to be replaced – they’re probably hooked or barbed. This can cause more than a mess, it can chew up the skin and cause scabbing and ultimately, loss of color when you heal.     Susan     http://public.surfree.com/scamp/mytattoos.html

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I think it is pointless to argue how many layers there are to the skin.   It really depends on how you look at it, for example structurally or cytologically. As you say, the most superficial layer is essentially dead.   Tattooing into that layer is pointless and will not lead to a permanent effect. The Deeper layer is the one that is more perfused with blood vessels. Tattooing into that layer will will result in excessive bleeding and possibly scaring.   The tattoo will spread more in the skin because the inks are carried by the greater perfusion and lymphatic flow. There is a layer between the Deeper and the outer horny layer of dead tissue.   So there are two living layers and three layers. Arising from the deeper layer is the papillae which are finger like protruberances.    Protruding into the middle layer.   The idea depth for a tattoo is into the level of the papillae. The goal is to create a pocket of collagen or tiny scar which surrounds the particle of pigment.   Too shallow and the particle is carried to the surface and lost.  Too deep and it is moved around by the fluids of the body.   Just right and it is trapped by the interstitial collagen. Geoffrey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone kindly pointed me to the FAQ and I found the answer, in case anyone else was interested in the answer this is what it said…. <<My understanding is that there are three layers of skin: Scaly layer, epidermis, and dermis. Tattoo machines are adjusted to penetrate into the dermis layer but NOT *through* it (below it is the fat layer of the body). When the needles go into the sanitary tube they have a layer of ink on and between them. The needles make little holes in the skin, and the ink is deposited into the holes. This is why the skin has to be stretched so blobs of ink don’t stay. Otherwise, the skin will latch onto the needles, grab the ink from them and generally make a mess. Ink just put into the scaly layer would be replaced quickly and fade away. While ink into the epidermis will stay, my conjecture is that the dermis makes for more ink and perhaps a more vivid image. Nichole Hey, Close…There are actually two layers to the skin. The scaly layer is called the horny layer,(no I am not kidding),and it is part of the epidermis. The epidermis continually produces new skin cells and pushes them outward towards the outermost (horny) layer which is compromised exclusively of dead cells, which flake away regularly. The ink must be placed into the dermis to stay put. Furthermore, if the needles go to deep, into the subcutaneous layer, scarring could result after the wound heals. Tim

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Question:

hi,…a couple of my friends have been making theses tattoo machines and they work pretty good…but i would like to know if there is anyone out there with a design for a home-made tattoo machine that works really good without anything on it breaking?? if there is someone out there that can and is willing to help me…email me soon…

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hi,…a couple of my friends have been making theses tattoo machines and they work pretty good…but i would like to know if there is anyone out there with a design for a home-made tattoo machine that works really good without anything on it breaking?? if there is someone out there that can and is willing to help me…email me soon…

if you insist on such endeavors I would reccomend ‘Tattooing A to Z’ or similiar publications.  Tattoo machine are not complicated – any decent junior high student should be able to manufacture one.  However, competent needle groupings and use of the subsequent whole is a fairly complicated endeavor and requires proper training and respect thereof. Erik http://members.aol.com/spidergod5/index.html

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if you insist on such endeavors I would reccomend ‘Tattooing A to Z’ or similiar publications.  Tattoo machine are not complicated – any decent junior high student should be able to manufacture one.

Oohh! Moneymaking idea for me!!! I’m a HS student, so I qualify!! I’ve always been technically inclined, too. How much can one get for one? I can picture it now (I still live at home): Mom: Hi honey, whatcha making there? Me: Oh, nothing, just a doorbell buzzer Mom: But we already *have* a doorbell! And why does it have a handle on      it? Tell me what it is!! Me: Nothing big, just a tattoo machine… Mom: -faint- tooki, entrepreneur extraordinaire (not) *    tooki, aka Tonio     * *         soon at         * *  http://clan.ch/tejada  *

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Oohh! Moneymaking idea for me!!! I’m a HS student, so I qualify!! I’ve always been technically inclined, too. How much can one get for one? I can picture it now (I still live at home): Mom: Hi honey, whatcha making there? Me: Oh, nothing, just a doorbell buzzer Mom: But we already *have* a doorbell! And why does it have a handle on     it? Tell me what it is!! Me: Nothing big, just a tattoo machine… Mom: -faint- tooki, entrepreneur extraordinaire (not)

A well built tattoo machine is a piece of art in itself.  Making a functional one isn’t hard, making a good one requires some skill.  As for selling them, personally I am not very interested in getting tattoo’d by someone who doesn’t make their own machines, needles, etc – for me it is one of the signs that I am dealing with someone who knows the art and craft and has personally involved themself with the instruments they use. Machines are fun to collect though – they are both history (a good old paul rogers machine) and modern art (spider webb customs) Erik http://members.aol.com/spidergod5/index.html

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Mom: Hi honey, whatcha making there? Me: Oh, nothing, just a doorbell buzzer Mom: But we already *have* a doorbell! And why does it have a handle on      it? Tell me what it is!! Me: Nothing big, just a tattoo machine… Mom: -faint-

        I bet you could sell them at school.  Everyone who’s anyone at your school would probably pay a lot for one.  And THEN, they could give themselves all the tattoos they wanted and then you could laugh at them while getting a HUGE, beautiful tattoo professionally done with all of the money you made off them!         Robert W. Montcalm |             George Mason U.    |     http://osf1.gmu.edu/~rmontcal/index.html         GTA – Mathematics  |                                |     "I’m not talking to myself, I’m just the                                                only one that’s listening."                                         — Jimmie’s Chicken Shack, "Milk"

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I can picture it now (I still live at home): Mom: Hi honey, whatcha making there? Me: Oh, nothing, just a doorbell buzzer Mom: But we already *have* a doorbell! And why does it have a handle on     it? Tell me what it is!! Me: Nothing big, just a tattoo machine… Mom: -faint-

You are *so* unimaginative! I’d much prefer reading a last line like this: Mom: Oh, yeah, the boys taking shop used to make those a lot when I was in high school, but after a bunch of kids kidnapped the principal and tattooed his ass one fall, they stopped that. <shrugs and wanders off to make her son a batch of brownies —- Rodger Whitlock "just enough knowledge to be dangerous"

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tattooed his ass one fall, they stopped that. <shrugs and wanders off to make her son a batch of brownies

        "Somebody’s bakin’ brownies…"         Robert W. Montcalm |             George Mason U.    |     http://osf1.gmu.edu/~rmontcal/index.html         GTA – Mathematics  |                                |     "I’m not talking to myself, I’m just the                                                only one that’s listening."                                         — Jimmie’s Chicken Shack, "Milk"

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hi,…a couple of my friends have been making theses tattoo machines and they work pretty good…but i would like to know if there is anyone out there with a design for a home-made tattoo machine that works really good without anything on it breaking?? if there is someone out there that can and is willing to help me…email me soon…

  ok…this is real nice…i ask a question and you ppl are going off about selling tattoo machines…if someone can help me…please reply in the group or email me direct…

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ok…this is real nice…i ask a question and you ppl are going off about selling tattoo machines…if someone can help me…please reply in the group or email me direct…

I think the response you have gotten on the newsgroup and by me personally has been more than cooperative – especially since this is the kind of request that would have had tattoo artists wanting to beat you up and anyone who helped you not too long ago.  Not to mention that the info is now pretty easy to come by via sources I mentioned to you and that you can even now buy a functional machine by mail without having to show any skill/experience/ or other connection to tattooing. In short – there comes a time when you have to start doing for yourself, that would be now… Erik http://members.aol.com/spidergod5/index.html

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writes:  ok…this is real nice…i ask a question and you ppl are going off about selling tattoo machines…if someone can help me…please reply in the group or email me direct…

The best place to find out how to make a home-made tattoo machine is in prison.  I suggest you commit a felony, rather than a misdemeanor.  Machines are superior in facilities for "state time" as opposed to local and county jails where most are just doin’ "skid bids".  Hope this helps. *** I ink, Therefore I am *** EMAIL: Tom_at_bodyartist_dot_com New View Tattoo, Highland, NY http://www.bodyartist.com

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Machines are superior in facilities for "state time"

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